11 Nov 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelThe basic thrust of the book are how/why people were martyrs, in the book I'd have to almost have to go back and read it again it speaks of how people
No. Is it good? Can you give me a couple of lines?
were put to death due to having copies of scripture. This was even done
by the Churches of day who thought they should be the only ones who had
the power or ability to teach and read the text. Until the Bible was put
together and made common the text was something people died over even
owning, even now it is true in places in the world.
I think a lot of people who died keeping text away from those that would
control it are smeared by those who just spout off the text is flawed without
giving specific examples where it was done and by whom.
Kelly
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by jaywillThe following conversation in the Bible, is suppose to be from the Supreme Lord, but dont you think its the words of men....I do, and its only Chapter 1. and theres more of this nonsense in the following chapters...and then in Numbers the same nonsense is repeated.
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When the Bible says Jesus is God, its because it was written that way so we would all believe that Jesus was God.
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Are you saying it was written in a certain way so that we would believe what is NOT true ?
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Thes ...[text shortened]... our own plots, your own schemes, your own sneaky alterations to control other people.
God would never speak of such mundane things, its absurd!
The LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
And he shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into his pieces.
And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar, and lay the wood in order upon the fire:
And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.
And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar.
And he shall cut it into his pieces, with his head and his fat: and the priest shall lay them in order on the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
But he shall wash the inwards and the legs with water: and the priest shall bring it all, and burn it upon the altar: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
And if the burnt sacrifice for his offering to the LORD be of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves, or of young pigeons.
And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and wring off his head, and burn it on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be wrung out at the side of the altar:
And he shall pluck away his crop with his feathers, and cast it beside the altar on the east part, by the place of the ashes:
And he shall cleave it with the wings thereof, but shall not divide it asunder: and the priest shall burn it upon the altar, upon the wood that is upon the fire: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
This is proof that the Bible is written by foolish men, and if you cant see this, then what can I do.
11 Nov 10
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These two chapters in the Bible ( Leviticus and Numbers) have single handedly proven that the Bible is a collection of writtings by men, and when it says " And the Lord said" .....it is not what the Lord said at all, but is man putting his own words into Gods mouth.
So this is the fabrication that I am talking about, cant anyone see this?
11 Nov 10
3 edits
Originally posted by vishvahetuThe passage in the Old Testament is instructions of offering. But the features had profound symbolic significance. In God's eyes there is really only ONE offering. That is that of the Son.
The following conversation in the Bible, is suppose to be from the Supreme Lord, but dont you think its the words of men....I do, and its only Chapter 1. and theres more of this nonsense in the following chapters...and then in Numbers the same nonsense is repeated.
God would never speak of such mundane things, its absurd!
The LORD called unto Mose proof that the Bible is written by foolish men, and if you cant see this, then what can I do.
All the offerings of the Old Testament contained symbolic typology pointing to various aspects of that ONE all-inclusive offering of the Son of God once and for all for everyone.
All these matters about the inward parts of the animal point to the inward parts of the Son of God Jesus Christ. Every innermost motive, intention, inclination, imagination of His whole inner being was acceptable to God.
The order of these things in the Bible is important. And the Gospel of Matthew or Luke does not preceed the book of Leviticus. It is the other way around because the Old Testament prefigures and points to the New Testament.
The God-man Jesus Christ is exceedingly profound and even mysterious. Centries of symbolism and shadows and types and pointers indicate this Perfect One who was to come.
You should see in all of the Old Testament offerings as typology pointing to the ONE all-inclusive offering for all time and for everyone - that of the Son of God, Jesus.
The lamb, the goat, the doves, the meal, the cakes, the different details of the offerings contained typology pointing to Christ Who offered Himself to God once and for all for all mankind.
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuThis is false, as is most of what you espouse here.
Jesus condemed animal slaughter, but the Bible does not teach it.
Jesus taught of reincarnation, but the Bible does not teach it.
Jesus was a Jew, and as such, he lived Jewish law, as handed down by Moses. This includes animal sacrifice, so he most certainly did NOT condemn killing animals. He ate a Passover meal every year that was a standard Jewish Passover meal. Animals were on the menu, like it or not. I really doubt he was a vegetarian the rest of the year either. He fed the thousands at the Sermon on the Mount with a few loaves of bread and a few fishes. If killing animals was so horrible, I doubt that would have happened. Also, reincarnation has NO place in Jewish teaching or law, and so I severely doubt he taught reincarnation.
You speak of the Bible and Christianity as if you knew what you are talking about. Fortunately, you don't. You speak from a biased viewpoint, making stuff up as you go, and all because you believe that all YOUR beliefs are true, and everyone else's are false. I pity you, and what kind of life you must live, changing known facts in your own mind to fit your extremely narrow worldview. Almost NOTHING you say about the Bible or Christianity is true.
The only reason the Bible does not teach reincarnation or condemn animal killing (or "slaughter", as you put it, trying to be melodramatic) is because they are completely unnecessary to the message of the Bible (not to mention contrary to Jewish and Christian belief), not because some humans somewhere got together and had some grand conspiracy to lead man down the wrong path (I even feel stupid just typing that). I focus on these two things here only because you seem to be especially hung up on these, but that doesn't mean that all the rest of your criticisms of the Bible and Christianity are true, either. In fact, it's the opposite.
I've asked you before to stop the lies. I'm not going to stop asking until you do.
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by jaywillThe passages that are in the Bible clearly shows that men are putting their words into Gods mouth......and it is not God speaking at all.
The passage in the Old Testament is instructions of offering. But the features had profound symbolic significance. In God's eyes there is really only ONE offering. That is that of the Son.
All the offerings of the Old Testament contained symbolic typology pointing to various aspects of that ONE all-inclusive offering of the Son of God once and for all fo ...[text shortened]... tained typology pointing to Christ Who offered Himself to God once and for all for all mankind.
God would never ever talk like that, ....but men would.
Because the Old Testament is a fabrication, then the New Testament willingly supports it, and that makes for the proof, of what Ive been saying all along.
You are trying to avoid the point, by suggesting these conversation by God were symboic, but they are clearly not.(they are direct instructions to Moses by God)
If you are saying they are symbolic, then you are embarrassed by them.
Why dont you take shelter of the true and original scripture Vedanta Sutra, because it will not cheat you like the Bible has, and it will bring you to a much higher and genuine understanding of God.
You seem like a person who has a great faith in God, but having a teaching that is not honest, will misdirect you, and not give you what you so desire (God)
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by SuzianneJesus never ate meat, and when you hear of such things, they are fabrications by the dishonest men who compiled the bible, to support animal cruelty......why do you support animal cruelty as well?
This is false, as is most of what you espouse here.
Jesus was a Jew, and as such, he lived Jewish law, as handed down by Moses. This includes animal sacrifice, so he most certainly did NOT condemn killing animals. He ate a Passover meal every year that was a standard Jewish Passover meal. Animals were on the menu, like it or not. I really doubt he wa ...[text shortened]... .
I've asked you before to stop the lies. I'm not going to stop asking until you do.
Are christians all mad or something....why do they defend the slaughter of innocent animals, have they got no understanding that killing is forbidden by persons living the spiritual life.
11 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetuWhere have you heard such falsities? Of course Jesus ate meat!
Jesus never ate meat, and when you hear of such things, they are fabrications by the dishonest men who compiled the bible, to support animal cruelty......why do you support animal cruelty as well?
11 Nov 10
1 edit
STOP all the crazy talk.....you cant just call out to Jesus and go to the spiritual world. (it doesnt work like that)
Its a cheap trick by the church to get converts, because you dont have to do anything, except sing out the name of Jesus (it wont work)
You must become enlightened in spiritual knowledge and purify your dirty heart and mind from the things of this world, or you will not enter the Kingdom of God.
And if you eat meat, you will never ever ever, enter the Kingdom of God....never!
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by vishvahetu"they are fabrications by the dishonest men who compiled the bible"
Jesus never ate meat, and when you hear of such things, they are fabrications by the dishonest men who compiled the bible, to support animal cruelty......why do you support animal cruelty as well?
Are christians all mad or something....why do they defend the slaughter of innocent animals, have they got no understanding that killing is forbidden by persons living the spiritual life.
You are one twisted, twisted person, with paranoid delusions.
If you don't believe, fine, I have no problem with that.
Saying that everything I believe in is a lie, yes, I have a problem with that.
My faith is NOT a lie, so your saying 'it is a lie' must be a lie.
Creating an argument in which you can deceive others out of their faith is evil and a sin. (Cruelty and slaughter are hyperbolic words of one who is trying to convince others of his view.) Be aware I'm not just talking about your hang up on animal killing, but everything you say against the Bible and Christianity. Again, almost NOTHING you say about the Bible or Christianity is true.
The only fabrications by dishonest men I see here are yours.
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuKeep going... one out of four (I speak of your third statement here) is not bad. And something you should take to heart as well. Where did you learn your argument style? Throwing in one gem of fact among the garbage of the rest of it makes it all seem a little more true? No, not really.
STOP all the crazy talk.....you cant just call out to Jesus and go to the spiritual world. (it doesnt work like that)
Its a cheap trick by the church to get converts, because you dont have to do anything, except sing out the name of Jesus (it wont work)
You must become enlightened in spiritual knowledge and purify your dirty heart and mind from the ...[text shortened]... dom of God.
And if you eat meat, you will never ever ever, enter the Kingdom of God....never!
Eventually no one will listen to anything you say, if you go on like this.
Just stop with all the lies.
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by SuzianneFor your benefit, I will resond...I dont want you, to give up on God, but I do want you to see that the Bible is is a scripture for the flesh eaters, and it will misdirect you from the path of proper spiritual living.
Keep going... one out of four (I speak of your third statement here) is not bad. And something you should take to heart as well. Where did you learn your argument style? Throwing in one gem of fact among the garbage of the rest of it makes it all seem a little more true? No, not really.
Eventually no one will listen to anything you say, if you go on like this.
Just stop with all the lies.
Why have you not studied Vedanta Sutra, and why have you just accepted the Bible without looking elsewhere.
You do not know of anything else but the Bible, and this is not the best way to determine what is truth and what is not.
To know truth, you must investigate all religions, for how do you know what the others are presenting....you will not know
I myself have investigated all religions, before making a discision to accept Vedanta Sutra, and interestingly, Vedanta Sutra was the hardest to practice, but it had the highest rewards.(self knowledge and Divine knowledge)
Just go and read in the Bible, Leveticus and Numbers, and you will see the folly of the conversation between Moses and the Lord (not really the Lord) but the words of dishonest men, saying the Lord is speaking.
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuI myself have investigated all religions, before making a discision to accept Vedanta Sutra, and interestingly, Vedanta Sutra was the hardest to practice, but it had the highest rewards.(self knowledge and Divine knowledge)
For your benefit, I will resond...I dont want you, to give up on God, but I do want you to see that the Bible is is a scripture for the flesh eaters, and it will misdirect you from the path of proper spiritual living.
Why have you not studied Vedanta Sutra, and why have you just accepted the Bible without looking elsewhere.
You do not know of anythi ...[text shortened]... and the Lord (not really the Lord) but the words of dishonest men, saying the Lord is speaking.
I myself almost wet myself laughing at this, your latest pitifully risible contribution to an ever expanding canon of utter, utter crap. On the day (should it ever arise and I think this unlikely) that you actually achieve self-knowledge, I'm absolutely confident that you will immediately cease your ree-dick-ulous posting and apologise sincerely and extensively to everyone you've had the temerity to insult with your rudeness, lies and arrogance.
11 Nov 10
Originally posted by KellyJayFirst of all, I myself dont ask for any intermediaries help anymore. I learn about the universe for myself.
I believe there are countless ways to God, Jesus is the only way that God
accepts, because it is God reaching to man not the other way around.
Kelly
However I have met many devotee-style people who seem very convinced that they are worshipping the correct guru. (chrsitians as well)
If I had to take a pick I would say the devotees of Osho were the closest to the mark.
Now because it may offend you I will say that is just my opinioin but nothing I've seen here or anywhere else seems like it is going to change my mind about the central christian dogma.
So we disagree.