Originally posted by vishvahetuLulz. So it's true - you are just trolling! I knew you weren't for real. Nah, not really, I totally bought you for a while.
This is exactly what happens when false religion and atheistic persons are revealed as dishonest, they all band together to support themselve and they assault the exposer.....but this person is not going anywhere and i will continue to expose your false teachings where ever and when ever.
I think its disgusting that you could abuse your children with your false beliefs, telling them they are accidents or God likes cruelty to animals, get honest.
Originally posted by karoly aczelyou know, nothing much. watching a game, having a bud.
I would actually like to see this theory DISproven! Where did christ get his knowledge from ? Was he born with it?
I am very curious about what happened to christ between 1 and 30.
Originally posted by vishvahetuOkay Vishvahahetu,
Look, Ive explained before, how christianity and islam are just fabrications by dishonest or misguided persons with their personal agendas to fill, (mostly power and control over the stupid masses)
Anyway let the bible hang itself, and it can do this quiet easily by asking the reader to accept the nonsense it teaches,....for example, just get your bibl ...[text shortened]... ch that a person has one life only (more nonsense)
I could give many more examples.
vishva
You and I for a little while. I rarely go out of my way to criticize other's beliefs of spirituality on this forum. I tend to only offer some defences when the Gospel of Christ is wrongly critiqued, to my realization.
You will not find a lot of posts from me on this Forum saying "Hinduism is wrong!". But I'll address some of your comments about my faith.
======================================
Ask yourself, if god comes to planet earth, then why does he turn up 32 yrs later.
===================================
For the first 30 years of His life Jesus was perfecting a living. It was not the time yet to preach. It was the time to LIVE what He was about to preach. That is why it says that the people said that He spoke as having authority:
"And when Jesus finished these words, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
For He taught them as One having authority and not like thier scribes." (Matt. 7:28,29)
Jesus lived His reality for 30 years before He came out to the world to teach as a priestly service. The adult priest, in the Hebrew system, was initiated into that office at the age of 30.
But there is another reason. His life for those 30 years WAS part of man's salvation. For it is His perfect life which makes available for us. This is not an easy concept to grasp. An analogy may help.
His living was like the preparation of a drink. That drink has to contain all the minerals and vitamens to do many positive things once one drinks it. Jesus' living was the preparation of a all-inclusive "drink" that heals, resurrects, cures, supplies, enables, and empowers. He perfect "the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" for those 30 years.
In this "drink" which the believer can now drink into himself as the Holy Spirit, is the wisdom of Jesus, the endurance of Jesus, the stamina of Jesus, the obedience of Jesus, the ability to suffer of Jesus, the ability to transcend oppression, depression, burdens, and perplexity all being attributes of Jesus. This all-inclusive Spirit of Jesus was prepared in His living on the earth for 30 years before He began to formerly preach.
His life was a preparation of the Spirit of Jesus Christ to be imparted into His believers. More can be said about this if you wish.
Paul, under his imprisonment in a Roman jail, encouraged us saying: "For I know that this will turn out to salvation through your petition and the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:19)
That bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ contains Jesus Christ Himself and things which He accomplished throughout His life on earth. It also contains God. It is prepared as a rich, healthy, all-inclusive "drink" that can become our salvation in any kind of suffering.
================================
Later on when the bible was compiled, it was suggested that jesus died for our sins, but this is also a fabrication, because to assume so, would make jesus a martyr, which the ruling class wanted, because they where making christianity the authorized religion......and jesus being a martyr would make the new religion more powerfull.
==================================
This is a matter of whether we should believe your word or that of the Bible. It is not "suggested" that Jesus died for me as a sinner. It is definitely TAUGHT in the Bible. There is no "suggesting" about it. It is repeated over and over again. There is no mistaking it.
And the redemptive death of Jesus does not make Him merely a martyr. In His death eternal redemption is accomplished. In His death there is the power to terminate within us all that plagues us of the fallen sin filled nature. That is why the believer must see that he has been crucified WITH Christ. He has been buried WITH Christ. And He has been raised WITH Christ.
His death is an act that the believer can absolutely identify with and benefit from in his daily moment by moment walk. It has not only redemptive power. It has terminating power to "kill off" many germs and bad things in the fallen nature.
This is much more then martyrdom. It is more then just an inspiring example, like the death of Abraham Lincoln or the death of Mahatma Ghandi. It is more then an "inspiring" death as a great example.
It is a death which man can APPLY and ACTIVATE in his own being. The same goes with His resurrection.
=========================
They also made the man jesus into a god, because this would certainly attract new converts if Jesus was a god instead of just a man.
===============================
I will stop this post here and take up this matter latter.
==============================
They also made the man jesus into a god, because this would certainly attract new converts if Jesus was a god instead of just a man.
===============================
The man Jesus is God/man. This is something He Himself taught and demonstrated.
This is also something that was taught and prophesied before Jesus was born. So His demonstration of His being qualified to be God/man was a confirmation of statements made centries earlier even before the man was born.
Originally posted by jaywillJesus came to preach in order to bring us to higher understanding, and they killed him for it.....so in that sense Jesus died trying to cleans our sinful nature, but there was no plan before hand that the blood of Jesus will take way all future sin, and allow people to go straight to the spiritual world.
Okay Vishvahahetu,
You and I for a little while. I rarely go out of my way to criticize other's beliefs of spirituality on this forum. I tend to only offer some defences when the Gospel of Christ is wrongly critiqued, to my realization.
You will not find a lot of posts from me on this Forum saying "Hinduism is wrong!". But I'll address som ...[text shortened]... ==
I will stop this post here and take up this matter latter.[/b]
To return to the spiritual world one must come to proper spiritual understanding of the nature of Godhead and their own spiritual nature, and have correct knowledge, because without correct knowledge the mind cannot be tranformed without "Being mindfull of the things of God", and " Let the mind be in you that was also in Christ".
So the Bible (because) it was written by Roman politicians and the current Jewish leaders, does not have the pure teachings of Jesus.....they used the name of Jesus, but wrote what they wanted to write and mish mash truth and untruth, now we have a Bible that teaches to kill animals is Ok and that we only have this one life, and that people will go to hell if they dont accept Jesus, and that Jesu performed miriacles, and his body rose from the grave....not true.
" I and my Father are One" means both are spiritual beings......but we are all spiritual as well, so I could say "I and God are One", and so could you....because this is truth, but the church does not want you to know this, because it takes power away from them.
Jesus condemed animal slaughter, but the Bible does not teach it.
Jesus taught of reincarnation, but the Bible does not teach it.
If Jesus was God then he doesn,t have to wait 30 yrs to start talking because God would be born enlightened and already perfect......but Jesus being a man, he would need to travel and beome learned, as he did.
=======================================
Jesus came to preach in order to bring us to higher understanding,
=======================================
That so-called "higher understanding" focused on Himself. For example:
" Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
These teachings of Jesus may be a "higher understanding". But they are an understanding of Who Jesus is. It is no higher understanding that one may benefit from WITHOUT receiving Christ Himself.
He came not to show a way. He came and said He was the way.
and they killed him for it.....so in that sense Jesus died trying to cleans our sinful nature, but there was no plan before hand that the blood of Jesus will take way all future sin, and allow people to go straight to the spiritual world.
You do not derive your understanding of Jesus from the Bible. Your source must be some other commentary. You're being deceived.
When Jesus refers to the new covenant in His blood (Luke 22:20) He was refering to a covenant prophesied to come to replace the Old Covenant of the Law Keeping under Moses. This "new covenant" was predicted to arrive by the prophet Jeremiah centries before.
Jeremiah 31:31
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jesus definitely taught that the Old Testament law, Psalms, and Prophets, centries beforehand, spoke of His redemptive suffering and death for the forgiveness of sins:
After His resurrection, we see Jesus speaking teaching this:
"And He said to them, O foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them clearly in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself." (Luke 24:25-27)
"And He said to them, These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all the things written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and Psalms concerning Me must be fulfilled.
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures;
And He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from teh dead on the third day, and that repentence for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem,
You are witnesses of these things." (Luke 24:44-48)
Clearly then, Christ's teaching before and after His resurrection were that His life and mission was predicted by the writings of Moses, and the Psalms, and the prophets.
You are not getting your understanding of Jesus from the Bible, but deceptively from some other twisting commentary.
======================================
To return to the spiritual world one must come to proper spiritual understanding of the nature of Godhead and their own spiritual nature, and have correct knowledge, because without correct knowledge the mind cannot be tranformed without "Being mindfull of the things of God", and " Let the mind be in you that was also in Christ".
=========================================
Just taking the words you write in this paragraph by themselves, I have no objection. In fact I agree.
But the additional twisted misunderstandings I must reject as not biblical.
For example, if we continue with the quotation that you include, it reads like this:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, Who existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped.
But emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becomming in the likeness of men.
And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obediant even unto death, and that the death of a cross.
Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name.
That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11)
So Paul's exhortation, which you quote, includes the eternal Deity of Christ, the incarnation of Christ, the perfect obedience and death on the cross of Christ, and the exaltation of the name of Jesus above every other name in the universe.
Every tongue will eventually confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. And every knee will eventually bow to this One.
=====================================
So the Bible (because) it was written by Roman politicians and the current Jewish leaders,
===============================
Which writer of the Bible was a Roman politician ?
The closest thing I can think of is that Matthew was a tax collector for the Roman Empire.
Your suspicion that Roman politicians wrote the Bible is flawed and a erroneous conspiracy theory.
==================================
does not have the pure teachings of Jesus.....they used the name of Jesus, but wrote what they wanted to write and mish mash truth and untruth, now we have a Bible that teaches to kill animals is Ok and that we only have this one life, and that people will go to hell if they dont accept Jesus, and that Jesus performed miriacles, and his body rose from the grave....not true.
===================================
You have quite a few complaints here. But it appears that you have simply selected the things in the New Testament which offend you, and imagined that they are the untruths mish mashed in with the things which you want to believe.
Ie. "Everything that offends me and that I don't like in the New Testament I relegate to Roman politicians. But what echoes my beliefs about my Hindu faith, these I will attribute to actual teachings of Jesus."
This is self deceiving selectivity. It is more honest to admit that there are some teachings of Jesus that you don't like. There are some that perhaps I don't like either. And I have been a Christian for many years.
Saying "When Jesus agrees with ME, that is authentic. When He doesn't that was mish mashed into the document by Roman bad guy politicians."
This is self deceiving, biased, and rather warped.
I'll look at your comments below this in another post.
==============================
" I and my Father are One" means both are spiritual beings......but we are all spiritual as well, so I could say "I and God are One", and so could you....because this is truth, but the church does not want you to know this, because it takes power away from them.
=================================
Jesus teaching that He and His Father are one is for the purpose of realizing that God has become a man.
However, part of the salvation of Jesus is to bring His saved people into an utter oneness with Himself and His Father also.
Forgiveness is not an end in itself. I think you realize that. You appreciate that there must be something deeper in Christ's teaching then that sinners are simply forgiven.
For that realization, I applaud you. However, the main obstacle standing in the way of oneness between God and man is the problem of man's sins.
So in John 14 Christ says that He goes to the cross to die a redemptive death, that where He is (in oneness with the Father) we the forgiven may also be.
Indeed, the parable of the grain of wheat producing many other grains like itself, emphasizes more the reproductive nature of Christ's death then the redemptive aspect. Both are needed. But at least in John 12:24 highlights that Jesus came to mass produce sons of God from the ONE Son of God:
"truly, truly, I say unto you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)
So Jesus would not remain the only begotten Son abiding alone. He would die to release the divine life concealed in the shell of His humanity, through crucifixion and resurrection - and produce "much fruit".
So the faithful Apostle Paul, among others, teaches that God's eternal purpose is to produce many BROTHERS of Jesus Christ as many sons of God - brothers of Christ the Firstborn Son:
"Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
And those whom he predestinated, these He also called, and those whom He called, these He also justified, and those whom he justifeid, these He also glorified." (Romans 8:29,30)
Glorification is the destiny here. And that means conforming the believers into the image of the Son of God making Him the FIRSTborn Son and them the "many brothers".
He is leading many sons into the expression of the Divine Being - "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, to make the Author of thier salvation perfect through sufferings." (Hebrews 2:10)
Christ's salvation is for the leading of many sons into the expression and glory of the Divine Being.
Christianity may be shallow. But the Gospel is not. And some in the church are inheriting the promises of God.
=====================================
Jesus condemed animal slaughter, but the Bible does not teach it.
===================================
'
I sense that this is major problem you have with the New Testament.
You do not have to eat animals if it offends your conscience. Being a committed vegetarian does not make one unable to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.
==============================
Jesus taught of reincarnation, but the Bible does not teach it.
===================================
I don't think Jesus taught reincarnation anywhere in the New Testament.
I don't think reincarnation can be found in the Holy Bible.
===================================
If Jesus was God then he doesn,t have to wait 30 yrs to start talking because God would be born enlightened and already perfect......but Jesus being a man, he would need to travel and beome learned, as he did.
==================================
Jesus is God / man. And as our Savior God chose to become a man and live 30 years to perfect a human living for us.
He chose to do it that way. He is the mingling of God and man. He is 100 % God and 100 % human being.
This is an unrivaled unity of the divine and the human, a mingling, an incorporation, an indwelling of mutual blending. He is God - man. And He came to reproduce God-men.
The 30 years of Jesus life as a God-man being experiencing growth, maturation, learning, development (yet sinless), is not at all to be despised. It is our salvation. That is that our human living can be infused and invaded by the Spirit of this God-man who lived on earth.
Because of His human life He is qualified to be a Great High Priest who sympathizes with our every human predicament. For God wants to live in man and for man to live in God in mutuality.
God wants to be human and wants humans to be God. He wants to mingle with man in a blended way.
Originally posted by karoly aczelHow many times do I have to ask for your example before you get around
Semi-truth, semi-revelation.
IMO.
I love the bible, but it is so ... sooooo wrong on some fundamental, universal principles.
Feel free to ask me for My prime example😉
to posting it?
Kelly
WSS ****Originally posted by jaywillWhen the Bible says Jesus is God, its because it was written that way so we would all believe that Jesus was God.
[b]==============================
" I and my Father are One" means both are spiritual beings......but we are all spiritual as well, so I could say "I and God are One", and so could you....because this is truth, but the church does not want you to know this, because it takes power away from them.
=================================
Jes and wants humans to be God. He wants to mingle with man in a blended way.[/b]
These verses that say Jesus was the way, and he was the one, and he was God, was worded that way, because the compilers of the Bible wanted the Bible to sound like it was the word of God, but it was the word of the ruling class people and the Jewish leaders, and they wanted it to be as powerfull as they could make it, so they altered the words of Jesus to make him sound like God, and some words they didnt change if it didnt matter that much.
When Jesus said "These teachings are the way and the truth and the life".....the compilers made it say....."I am the way and the truth and the life"
Any verse that says Jesus is God has been twisted to make it sound like that, because Jesus didnt write the Bible.
Rome wanted this new religion to control all the people, so they changed a lot of the teachings of Jesus to make meat eating ok, and to scare people into joining the church, by saying they only had one life, which is false.
Its very good that christians believe in the Lord, but make sure you know who the Lord is, because all your worship to Jesus, is to a man....but a great man.
Its ok to worship Jesus, as Jesus the great man he was, but remember there is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead (God) to consider in your worship.
And if you want to get the correct understanding of God and be a better Christian, then study Vedanta Sutra and the perfect knowledge will be there, and you can find out what the truth really is.
The scribes wrote the Bible under the strict guidance of the ruling class who had their materialistic and unenlightened agenda.
Originally posted by vishvahetu========================================
When the Bible says Jesus is God, its because it was written that way so we would all believe that Jesus was God.
These verses that say Jesus was the way, and he was the one, and he was God, was worded that way, because the compilers of the Bible wanted the Bible to sound like it was the word of God, but it was the word of the ruling class people and t ...[text shortened]... he strict guidance of the ruling class who had their materialistic and unenlightened agenda.
When the Bible says Jesus is God, its because it was written that way so we would all believe that Jesus was God.
========================================
Are you saying it was written in a certain way so that we would believe what is NOT true ?
==================================
These verses that say Jesus was the way, and he was the one, and he was God, was worded that way, because the compilers of the Bible wanted the Bible to sound like it was the word of God, but it was the word of the ruling class people and the Jewish leaders,
====================================
The "ruling class" are the ones who had Him executed for making such claims.
Your explanation is wild and fanciful. It makes little sense to me. The chief priests and the Sanhedren rejected His teaching.
=================================================
and they wanted it to be as powerfull as they could make it, so they altered the words of Jesus to make him sound like God, and some words they didnt change if it didnt matter that much.
=======================================
Do you mean that you have copies of ancient new testaments by which you can trace for us these alterations ?
Transmission modifications of the New Testament like this would be more then sensational. What extant copies of fragments of New Testament documents demonstrate these alterations.
Give us some examples. Do you expect me just to accept your conspiracy theory ?
=======================================
When Jesus said "These teachings are the way and the truth and the life".....the compilers made it say....."I am the way and the truth and the life"
========================================
There are thousands of copies (in whole or in fragments) of the Greek New Testament. They are cataloged. And the people who spend their lives tracking these things should know about such a copy.
Which copy has that wording of John 14:6 ?
I expect you to provide me with a reference to that ancient document. I will not accept your conspiracy theory just on a wise wink and a nod from you.
===================================
Any verse that says Jesus is God has been twisted to make it sound like that, because Jesus didnt write the Bible.
=====================================
What are the "untampered with" ancient copies of the New Testament that demonstrate these alterations in transmission ?
On your mere say so, I do not accept your conspiracy theory. How do I know you simply have decided that everything in the Bible that offends you, you claim is an addition not in the original ?
=======================================
Rome wanted this new religion to control all the people, so they changed a lot of the teachings of Jesus to make meat eating ok, and to scare people into joining the church, by saying they only had one life, which is false.
=======================================
Rome persecuted the Christians to the death under about five or so Roman emporers. To be a Christian in Rome in the first and second century was to be considered an atheist. The Roman emperor was a god.
Eventually, the Roman Empire welcomed that Christians and tried to make Christianity the state religion. That was indeed a huge mixture of errors with truth.
However, the documents of the four Gospels and the whole New Testament had long since been completed.
=================================
Its very good that christians believe in the Lord, but make sure you know who the Lord is, because all your worship to Jesus, is to a man....but a great man.
====================================
He is not a great man. Jesus is God-man. And He is available today to be received and known intimately.
====================================
Its ok to worship Jesus, as Jesus the great man he was, but remember there is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead (God) to consider in your worship.
==================================
You are self deceived in thinking you have a more accurate interpretation of my experience and faith.
This kind of patronizing permission giving demonstrates to me that you just don't know what you are talking about.
======================================
And if you want to get the correct understanding of God and be a better Christian, then study Vedanta Sutra and the perfect knowledge will be there, and you can find out what the truth really is.
The scribes wrote the Bible under the strict guidance of the ruling class who had their materialistic and unenlightened agenda.
========================================
I think you are projecting your own sneaky conspiracies onto others. You are telling me more about yourself then you are about the history of the Christian faith.
"As face answers to face in water, so the mind of a man reflects the man"
You are telling me of your own plots, your own schemes, your own sneaky alterations to control other people.