@pb1022 saidYes, indeed. Glad you asked. Prayer, singing hymns, shouting 'I love Jesus', professions of faith, boasting about the Holy Spriit, proclaiming you are saved, everything that comes out of your mouth is mouth worship, and it is a good thing IF IT IS FOLLOWED UP WITH THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS
You know who else was called Satan? Jesus Christ.
And you know who called Him that? The Pharisees - the people who put Jesus Christ to death and whom Jesus had condemned.
You don’t understand what believing in your heart is all about.
And you denigrate “mouth worship.”
Is prayer “mouth worship?”
Or is that another question on doctrine you’ll refuse to answer?
So a man does all these mouth worshipping things and that is good, it is supposed to encourage him to keep the commandments. If he does the good things then it is not mouth worship. But Christian church do not encourage the doing of the good works and keeping the commandments. They preach mouth worship only, with the false claim that they will do good works or the Holy Spirit will guide them and everything they do is good works.
Faith with works is dead faith that leads to damnation
\Faith with works and keeping the commandments is living faith that leads to eternal life
Churches preach dead faith
How many times are you going to defend your doctrine of dead faith.
The Pharisees practiced mouth worship and Jesus condemned them that is why they called him Satan.
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
(Matthew 23:1-3 KJV)
Jesus said not to be like them because They say and DO NOT.
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06 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidYou’re aware (aren’t you?) that when Jesus Christ said that passage you quoted, His disciples (and all the other Jews) were living under the Old Covenant.
Yes, indeed. Glad you asked. Prayer, singing hymns, shouting 'I love Jesus', professions of faith, boasting about the Holy Spriit, proclaiming you are saved, everything that comes out of your mouth is mouth worship, and it is a good thing IF IT IS FOLLOWED UP WITH THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS
So a man does all these mouth worshipping things and that is good, ...[text shortened]... t.
(Matthew 23:1-3 KJV)[/i]
Jesus said not to be like them because They say and DO NOT.
The New Covenant did not come into effect until *after* Jesus’ crucifixion and Resurrection.
Jesus Christ’s disciples, when Jesus said the passage you quoted, also did not have the Holy Spirit.
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;”
(John 16:7-9)
And you’re mistaken about why the Pharisees called Jesus Christ “Satan” and had Him put to death.
They did that because Jesus claimed to be God.
You continue to falsely say that I don’t believe good works and keeping the commandments (to the best of one’s ability) are important. They are important, but that is evidence of salvation, not a requirement of it.
Or are you saying the Apostle Paul, who wrote of his struggles to do what is right and not do what is wrong in Romans 7, wasn’t saved?
Did Jesus say one must keep the commandments to perfection? Can you cite a verse where Jesus (or any of the Apostles) said that?
06 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidI dont mind having a discussion on the Old Covenant v the New Covenant. But I know of Dispensationalists who believe that the teaching and commandments are null and void under the NC and that is a pile of baloney. If you are one of those you are a false teacher. The commandments of Christ apply for all people both before and after his fructification and resurrection.
You’re aware (aren’t you?) that when Jesus Christ said that passage you quoted, His disciples (and all the other Jews) were living under the Old Covenant.
The New Covenant did not come into effect until *after* Jesus’ crucifixion and Resurrection.
Jesus Christ’s disciples, when Jesus said the passage you quoted, also did not have the Holy Spirit.
“Nevertheless I tell ...[text shortened]... the commandments to perfection? Can you cite a verse where Jesus (or any of the Apostles) said that?
The reason for this is simple. The core of the commandments is charity and if you fulfil that, you have fulfilled the law so it makes no difference whether it is Old or New covenants when it comes to the responsibility of the Christian, none whatsoever. So your continued claims about covenant is just a diversion.
You are back with this talk about perfection. Im here to discuss what Jesus said. What he did not say, you can continue to guess and ramble on about it. Im not interested.
The disciples were given the Holy Spirit. With one mouth you say Jesus was God and then you think he could not give his disciples the Holy Spirit? I know of the ploy to make a distinction between the Day of Pentecost and prior. There is no difference. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and Jesus gave it to the disciples.
I said you do not preach about good works. So far your teachings do not resemble in any shape or form the teachings of Christ., You are far from it. If you cannot repeat what Jesus said then you do not have the Holy Spirit.
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06 Dec 21
@Rajk999
Are you seriously saying there’s no difference between the Old and New Covenants?
Speaking of the covenants is a distraction? Was it a distraction when Jesus talked about it?
“In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.”
(Luke 22:20)
@pb1022 saidRead this slowly.
@Rajk999
Are you seriously saying there’s no difference between the Old and New Covenants?
Speaking of the covenants is a distraction? Was it a distraction when Jesus talked about it?
“In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.”
(Luke 22:20)
It makes no difference to what is required of you whether you profess belief in Christ or under the Law of Moses
Old Covenant --- Righteousness and good works
New Covenant == Righteousness and good works
There is ONE Criteria for judgment
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.(Revelation 22:13-15 KJV)
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06 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidHow are sins forgiven in the New Covenant?
Read this slowly.
It makes no difference to what is required of you whether you profess belief in Christ or under the Law of Moses
Old Covenant --- Righteousness and good works
New Covenant == Righteousness and good works
There is ONE ...[text shortened]... s, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.(Revelation 22:13-15 KJV)[/i]
@pb1022 saidJesus Christ is the mediator for sins for the whole world, Old Covenant or New Covenant, makes no difference
How are sins forgiven in the New Covenant?
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (Romans 3:24-25 KJV)
Jesus died for sins that are past for all people
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.(Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV)
Under Christ there is now no distinction between people. There is now one covenant. One criteria for eternal life for all people. Those who live righteously and do good works per Matt 25, the sheep, get eternal life, and the others are cast out. Jesus is the judge so dont ask me if you need to keep the commandments perfectly.
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06 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidYou’re misinterpreting both of those passages (imo) and I’ve already responded to both.
Jesus Christ is the mediator for sins for the whole world, Old Covenant or New Covenant, makes no difference
[i]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (Rom ...[text shortened]... ers are cast out. Jesus is the judge so dont ask me if you need to keep the commandments perfectly.
But here it is again:
In the first passage, “sins that are past” refers to sins committed before Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection.
In the second passage, Paul is writing to Jews who are entertaining Christianity but also thinking of returning to Judaism.
Paul is telling them the sacrificial system in the Old Covenant has been abolished.
So belief in Jesus Christ is not required under the New Covenant? Is that your position?
How do you explain these verses?
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
(John 3:16)
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
(Romans 10:9)
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
“And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(Acts 16:30-31)
@pb1022 saidYour response to those passages was nonsense. I dont need to explain the whole bible. You enjoy trying to do that then knock yourself out. That is why your church doctrine is such a mess. I focus on what Jesus said when it comes to eternal life. Jesus is the authority. If you think Paul has more authority then you go ahead.
You’re misinterpreting both of those passages (imo) and I’ve already responded to both.
But here it is again:
In the first passage, “sins that are past” refers to sins committed before Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection.
In the second passage, Paul is writing to Jews who are entertaining Christianity but also thinking of returning to Judaism.
Paul is telli ...[text shortened]... said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(Acts 16:30-31)
Here is what the bible says
Jesus died for the whole world, therefore
Jesus saves
Jesus justifies
Jesus forgives
Jesus gives eternal life
To all those who keep the commandments
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06 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidYour false doctrine has you so mixed up, you’re contradicting yourself all over the place - and often in the same day!
Your response to those passages was nonsense. I dont need to explain the whole bible. You enjoy trying to do that then knock yourself out. That is why your church doctrine is such a mess. I focus on what Jesus said when it comes to eternal life. Jesus is the authority. If you think Paul has more authority then you go ahead.
Here is what the bible says
Jesus died for t ...[text shortened]... Jesus justifies
Jesus forgives
Jesus gives eternal life
To all those who keep the commandments
First you say Jesus, Paul, John and Peter all preached the same thing. Then you say they didn’t.
First you say atheists who do good works go to Heaven. Then you say belief in Jesus is necessary. Now you’re back to saying belief in Jesus isn’t necessary.
You say you only listen to Jesus, but then you ignore what He said in John 6:40:
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
You claim people have to earn their salvation but can’t explain (among many other verses) Romans 6:23, where eternal life is described as a gift from God:
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
(Romans 6:23)
Gifts aren’t earned!
You claim only those who keep the commandments get eternal life but you refuse to acknowledge no one could keep the commandments perfectly under the Old Covenant and no one can keep them perfectly under the New Covenant either.
You think God judges us based on our actions, while Scripture is clear God judges us based on our hearts.
“But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.”
(1 Samuel 16:7)
You’ve tied yourself into knots trying to justify your false salvation-by-works doctrine. Put a little salt on you, and you could be a pretzel!
06 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidOk cool. Are we done?
Your false doctrine has you so mixed up, you’re contradicting yourself all over the place - and often in the same day!
First you say Jesus, Paul, John and Peter all preached the same thing. Then you say they didn’t.
First you say atheists who do good works go to Heaven. Then you say belief in Jesus is necessary. Now you’re back to saying belief in Jesus isn’t necessary. ...[text shortened]... ustify your false salvation-by-works doctrine. Put a little salt on you, and you could be a pretzel!
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07 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidAlmost.
Ok cool. Are we done?
If good works and keeping the commandments are all that matter, is evangelizing a waste of time?
If atheists who do good works go to Heaven, why did Jesus Christ tell His disciples this, after His Resurrection:
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
(Luke 24:46-47)
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07 Dec 21
@Rajk999
And what did the Apostle John mean when he wrote:
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17)
07 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidJesus said to go preach the Gospel. The is the good news that the Kingdom of God is near, repent and live righteously [keep the commandments]. What is a waste of time is what churches preach... profess faith and you go to heaven. That is a waste of time because church members are not told to keep the commandments.
Almost.
If good works and keeping the commandments are all that matter, is evangelizing a waste of time?
If atheists who do good works go to Heaven, why did Jesus Christ tell His disciples this, after His Resurrection:
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and rem ...[text shortened]... f sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
(Luke 24:46-47)