Seeing Death

@kellyjay said
I think the right to bear arms is a birthright; if you want to put rules or tests in
it you will remove the right and set it up as government-sanctioned activity and
once that happens, it is no longer a birthright.

I am not suggesting that your right "to keep and bear arms" is removed. You know this. I have said it several times. Stop being so disingenuous.

@kellyjay said
I think the right to bear arms is a birthright.

Tackle these questions head-on, if you would.

[1] Do you believe you have the "birthright" to keep and bear an Uzi submachine gun that can fire 600 bullets in 60 seconds or an FN P90 that can fire more than 1,000 bullets in 60 seconds? Yes or no?

Do you believe you have the "birthright" to use uranium tipped bullets and dumdum bullets? Yes or no?

Do you believe you have the "birthright" to keep and bear arms such as a bazooka and an RPG? Yes or no?

@KellyJay

A “birthright”?! You mean an unalienable right like “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”? So, apparently for you, the right to bear arms [whatever arms, without restriction] is a superior right to that of life.

Your repeated rants on behalf of guns – as opposed to your silence on behalf of those murdered – tells us who and what you are. You are the very voice of what Hannah Arendt called “the banality of evil” – masked, in your case, under a veneer of Christianity.

@kellyjay said
Why would that make a difference?

@fmf said
If the media showed the American people, in graphic detail, on TV, and with the permission of the parents involved, of course, the bodies of elementary school children [in this case] who'd been blown apart, literally, by a mass murderer armed with military-style assault weapons, and did so every time this kind of thing happened, would it shift the gun safety/regulation debate?

@kellyjay said
Why would that make a difference?

Why do you think it would NOT make a difference?

@fmf said
Tackle these questions head-on, if you would.

[1] Do you believe you have the "birthright" to keep and bear an Uzi submachine gun that can fire 600 bullets in 60 seconds or an FN P90 that can fire more than 1,000 bullets in 60 seconds? Yes or no?

Do you believe you have the "birthright" to use uranium tipped bullets and dumdum bullets? Yes or no?

Do you believe you have the "birthright" to keep and bear arms such as a bazooka and an RPG? Yes or no?

I don't care what you think my 'birthright' allows me to have; how is that for
head-on? The degree and efficiency of a gun don't change the fact that it is
not the weapon that has a desire to kill; it is the one holding it and pulling the
trigger while it is pointed at someone or many. The size of a car or truck does
not make it dangerous it is the driver; you making weapon comparisons does
not address the real problem; it is the brokenness of man, our fallen nature,
unless, in your wisdom, you see this as just normal human life playing out as
we dance to our DNA?

@kellyjay said
I don't care what you think my 'birthright' allows me to have; how is that for
head-on?

This retort is not "head-on" at all. It's a dodge. I am not asking you to "care" about what I think. I am asking you what arms YOU think your "birthright" sensibly allows you to have in a nation of laws that has other people living in it [i.e. society] aside from you AND including you. Don't be so disingenuous.

@fmf said
This retort is not "head-on" at all. It's a dodge. I am not asking you to "care" about what I think. I am asking you what arms YOU think your "birthright" sensibly allows you to have in a nation of laws that has other people living in it [i.e. society] aside from you AND including you. Don't be so disingenuous.

Your opinion of what I 'think' my birthright is, is meaningless to me; I don't care if
you approve or disapprove, so justifying it to you is not something I care about in
the slightest.

@kellyjay said
The degree and efficiency of a gun don't change the fact that it is
not the weapon that has a desire to kill; it is the one holding it and pulling the
trigger while it is pointed at someone or many.

But this is NOT what I am asking you. You're being very disingenuous. I am asking you three clear cut questions about YOUR beliefs; each one requires a yes/no answer.

[1] Do you believe you have the "birthright" to keep and bear an Uzi submachine gun that can fire 600 bullets in 60 seconds or an FN P90 that can fire more than 1,000 bullets in 60 seconds? Yes or no? [2] Do you believe you have the "birthright" to use uranium tipped bullets and dumdum bullets? Yes or no? [3] Do you believe you have the "birthright" to keep and bear arms such as a bazooka and an RPG? Yes or no?

I am NOT asking you what you think I think about what you think. And I am not asking you about the morality of killing. I am simply asking you questions [1], [2], and [3].

@kellyjay said
Your opinion of what I 'think' my birthright is, is meaningless to me; I don't care if
you approve or disapprove, so justifying it to you is not something I care about in
the slightest.

I am not asking you to "care" about what I think.

I am asking you what arms YOU believe your "birthright" sensibly allows you to own and use.

You DO care about arms. What kinds of arms do you believe you DON'T have the right to keep and bear?

@kellyjay said
The size of a car or truck does
not make it dangerous it is the driver; you making weapon comparisons does
not address the real problem; it is the brokenness of man, our fallen nature,
unless, in your wisdom, you see this as just normal human life playing out as
we dance to our DNA?

This is not an answer to what I am asking you. I am not asking you about your DNA and my DNA.

@fmf said
Do you think that your right to "keep and bear arms" along with your children's right to "keep and bear arms" should be limited in so far as there is mandatory gun safety training and adjudication of the child's "level of maturity"?

BUMP for KellyJay

@kellyjay said
Your opinion of what I 'think' my birthright is, is meaningless to me; I don't care if
you approve or disapprove, so justifying it to you is not something I care about in
the slightest.

Let me get this straight. You do NOT want to ~ or cannot bring yourself to ~ say what you believe BECAUSE you don't care if someone agrees with it or not?

Surely, if you do NOT care if someone agrees with it or not, you would have NO difficulty saying what you believe, right? How odd.

@fmf said
Let me get this straight. You do NOT want to ~ or cannot bring yourself to ~ say what you believe BECAUSE you don't care if someone agrees with it or not?

Surely, if you do NOT care if someone agrees with it or not, you would have NO difficulty saying what you believe, right? How odd.

There are some subjects different opinions matter, others not so much.

@kellyjay said
There are some subjects different opinions matter, others not so much.

What are your opinions on the following matters?

[1] Do you think toddlers have a birthright to keep and bear arms?

[2] Do you think the mentally ill have a birthright to keep and bear arms?

[3] Do you think murderers who've served their time have a birthright to keep and bear arms?

[4] Do you think people with senile dementia have a birthright to keep and bear arms?

[5] Do you think school children have a birthright to keep and bear arms and bring them onto school campuses?

Five questions, each of which can be dealt with a yes or a no.

@fmf said
I'd be interested in this question being discussed from a spiritual, religious, or philosophical point of view rather than how it would be tackled on the Debates Forum ... and it's too serious and gruesome for any other forum.

If the media showed the American people, in graphic detail, on TV, and with the permission of the parents involved, of course, the bodies of elementary ...[text shortened]... and did so every time this kind of thing happened, would it shift the gun safety/regulation debate?

If the media showed the American people how many times assaults and murders were thwarted by a legally armed American it would change the entire argument.

The truth is out there, but the "media" isn't telling it.