@kellyjay saidThis analogy does not lend any credence to the personal opinions you express about supernatural beings and phenomena.
Absolute truth is simply truth, for example, when you walk into a room, do you do it by walking through a door avoiding the walls, or do you slip through a solid wall? The walls are real, and when we sit down typically it is a chair or bench or something we can use, we don't lift our feet off the ground and float.
@indonesia-phil saidRejecting God is not a matter of studying the world around us, that is Atheism.
Oh dear. Studying and understanding the world around us is not science? What is it, then?
@kellyjay saidWhat kind of weird, convoluted logic are you using now? You work on the assumption that there is a god to reject, I don't. Science is about studying the world around us, and needs no god, in fact it needs not to have a god.
Rejecting God is not a matter of studying the world around us, that is Atheism.
@indonesia-phil saidYou work under the assumption there is no God, I do. Science is the study of the world around us, theology is a different discipline of study, it doesn’t change anything about the world around us, except for one, how is it viewed. Is there is meaning and purpose behind it that is not assigned by us?
What kind of weird, convoluted logic are you using now? You work on the assumption that there is a god to reject, I don't. Science is about studying the world around us, and needs no god, in fact it needs not to have a god.
How we view it doesn’t alter any elements, variations in patterns, shapes, forms, functions, or anything else in the universe. It only affects our worldviews which is the lens we view it with.
Making our worldviews part of the equation turns this not into an evidence discussion, but philosophical one, which is not viewing the world around us, but philosophy before anything else. The very thing you complain about!
@indonesia-phil saidWe can have both.
Studying and understanding the world around us is 'reason' enough, without attributing everything to some invented divine all - powerful entity. Your world may be 'shattered' by the realization or acceptance that your god is a myth, but most of us will be just fine.
Some choose not to.
@kellyjay saidSure, everything which exists exists, with or without religion, because...Religion is a humankind made construct, one way in which we 'assign' meaning and purpose to life, the universe and everything.
You work under the assumption there is no God, I do. Science is the study of the world around us, theology is a different discipline of study, it doesn’t change anything about the world around us, except for one, how is it viewed. Is there is meaning and purpose behind it that is not assigned by us?
How we view it doesn’t alter any elements, variations in patterns, shap ...[text shortened]... iewing the world around us, but philosophy before anything else. The very thing you complain about!
My 'worldview' is that science is sufficient unto itself and needs no other meaning or purpose, other than the fascination of learning about nature, which is still very much work in progress.
If we drift into the realms of philosophy, there are those who have posited that nothing actually exists, the whole thing is a figment of our imagination, and they're welcome to think that, but that I think serves no practical purpose, everyone still has to eat breakfast. As I've said before, you are also welcome to your religious beliefs, I don't care what you believe, but if you or anyone else presents the existence of your or anybody else's god as fact, then we have something to talk about.
@indonesia-phil saidSpouting an Atheistic viewpoint does not prove anything, all you are doing is declaring what you believe is true, is true. How about bringing to bear your views on evidence not just making declarations? More is required if you want to prove a point instead of declaring it as if that is all that is required. When you say get rid of God from my viewpoint, that adds nothing to the discussion, I could also you need to add God to your viewpoint, it is meaningless to say such things.
Sure, everything which exists exists, with or without religion, because...Religion is a humankind made construct, one way in which we 'assign' meaning and purpose to life, the universe and everything.
My 'worldview' is that science is sufficient unto itself and needs no other meaning or purpose, other than the fascination of learning about nature, which is still ver ...[text shortened]... presents the existence of your or anybody else's god as fact, then we have something to talk about.
Give reasons why mindlessness could do the complex work we see in life.
I doubt anyone who is dug in will easily admit they are looking at evidence for God, even if they say that life looks designed they then turn around and say the look is only an illusion as if that proves anything, they acknowledge what they see, but deny it anyway.
@kellyjay saidWhen you say "mindlessness", do you simply mean something that is non-anthropomorphized?
Give reasons why mindlessness could do the complex work we see in life.
When you say "do work" or "do complex work" are you envisaging some human-like or superhuman agent with thought processes that you can conceive of as being similar to your own?
If so, why are you insisting on superimposing this onto the discussion?
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It's only fair to ask @KellyJay if he is speaking for himself, when he argues for God's sake? God's existence sake for the discussion.
Has God requested him to be his representative and spokesperson?
The term "Metaphysical Absolute" refers to the concept of an unconditional reality that transcends limited, conditional, everyday existence. It is often used as an alternate term for a divine entity or God, especially by those who feel that the term "God" lends itself too easily to anthropomorphic presumptions.
In philosophy, the term "absolute" is generally used to describe a perfect, self-sufficient reality that depends upon nothing external to itself. This concept is often associated with the supreme being or the ultimate creative mind.
The metaphysical absolute could be seen as the source through which all being emanates. It contrasts with finite things, considered individually, and known collectively as the relative. As such, the word "Absolute" signifies a negative concept: non-relative, non-comparative, or without relation to anything else.
In the context of metaphysics, the metaphysical absolute represents the highest level of reality, beyond which nothing exists. It is the ultimate truth, the ultimate reality, the ultimate principle, the ultimate cause, and the ultimate effect.
In the metaphysical context, proving absolutes is a complex endeavor due to the abstract and often subjective nature of metaphysical concepts. Metaphysics deals with the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, potentiality and actuality.
Proving absolutes, whether in theological, scientific, or philosophical contexts, is a complex task due to the inherently subjective nature of these fields.
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@vivify saidYou do realize that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was a strong believer in the spiritual world? At the time of his death on July 7, 1930, he had long been recognized as a prominent advocate of Spiritualism, the belief that the deceased can communicate with the living through an earthly conduit, or medium. For over fourteen years, he dedicated significant portions of his time, energy, and resources to promoting this cause, which he frequently referred to as "the most important thing in the world"
Once you believe in absolutes you close your mind to possibilities that challenge those "absolutes". That's the opposite of science.
Science does try to discover ultimate truths about the universe but scientists resist such labels because you can never be sure if that's been reached. New discoveries are made all the time and scientists need to keep open minds about them. ...[text shortened]... to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.[/i]"
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes