Jesus IS Jehovah

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I do suspect though, when it comes to Scripture, a non-theist will view the texts with (at the very least) a higher level of objectivity, as they have 'no horse in the race.'

This is, I think, why sonship would say just about anything to poo poo the knowledge and expertise of a scholar like Bart. D. Ehrman.

@fmf said
'I don't remember any discussions about this, please make the effort to type it all out again now just for me' and 'I don't remember what you believe about X and I deny that you have told me what you believe about X 10 times already in the past' seem to be vaguely passive-aggressive go-to Christian 'debate' devices here, used ad nauseam by dj2becker, but getting used increasingly by the likes of KellyJay and SecondSon and galveston75.

Spot on.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes, you raise some good points.

Objectivity is a precarious business. I do suspect though, when it comes to Scripture, a non-theist will view the texts with (at the very least) a higher level of objectivity, as they have 'no horse in the race.' A Trinitarian, for example, has already decided what the texts mean and there is no wriggle room on that. (Unlike my own position, where a good counter-argument may carry some sway).

You are an Atheist, you think when you see God said you have not already said in your heart that isn't true?

@kellyjay said
You are an Atheist, you think when you see God said you have not already said in your heart that isn't true?

I have 'no horse in the race.' I read scripture purely at an academic level. (The same way I can discuss Tolkien's portrayal of dragons, without my disbelief in dragons getting in the way).

Theists bring their baggage to scripture, not atheists.

@FMF

This is, I think, why sonship would say just about anything to poo poo the knowledge and expertise of a scholar like Bart. D. Ehrman.

You don't know that.
And I doubt that you could give an example of me not rendering the due respect to Dr. Ehrman as an expert in New Testament textural criticism.

I've listened to many of his lectures and quite a few thought provoking debates, in which I am always left educated.

And some evangelical scholars have THANKED Bart Ehrman for some of the stands he has taken. He says the Jesus Mythers like Dr. Richard Carrier are making fools of themselves for saying Jesus never existed.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

In the last, Sonship asked me to give my top 3 contradictions and only really managed to deal with one of them. The others he, of course, said he would come back to later,...but never really did.

Would you refresh my memory then and I'll see where I left off ?

Oh, Dr. Bart Ehrman, I do not agree with on some critical things. But I would take a class with him if I were at his school.

I first got familiar with him by going to the public library and taking out lectures on the history early "church fathers" and of apocryphal writings - which was very beneficial to me.

@sonship said
@FMF

This is, I think, why sonship would say just about anything to poo poo the knowledge and expertise of a scholar like Bart. D. Ehrman.

You don't know that.
And I doubt that you could give an example of me not rendering the due respect to Dr. Ehrman as an expert in New Testament textural criticism.

I can't be bothered to go look for it now there is no genuine search function anymore. Your wheels fell off altogether.

It lasted for about 5 pages and included gossip about something you had heard someone say they'd heard about something mean and self-undermining Ehrman had supposedly said off-mic after a panel discussion and it included you elevating some nobody community college guitar playing certificate holder ~ with amateurish videoclips on the interwebz - above Ehrman.

I think you tried to walk back some of the hilarous twaddle that you were coming out with in that het-up posting-too-fast-for-your-own-good kind of way you get sometimes.

If you don't recall it, then what an oddball you can be.

If people think I am lying about it, so be it.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

In the last, Sonship asked me to give my top 3 contradictions and only really managed to deal with one of them. The others he, of course, said he would come back to later,...but never really did.

Would you refresh my memory then and I'll see where I left off ?

Sure. I'll put the kettle on and then spend the next couple of hours going through old threads trying to find it.

Anything for you.

@FMF

I can't be bothered to go look for it now there is no genuine search function anymore. Your wheels fell off altogether.

Fine. We cannot search it. No problem. And thanks for your stupid word picture about wheels falling off or whatever. Padding weak arguments with colorful words I guess is fair.

@kellyjay said
You are an Atheist, you think when you see God said you have not already said in your heart that isn't true?

Your heart pumps blood around your body. Literally. When you say 'in your heart" you are talking about things that happen in the brain. Sorry, but metaphors do not create magic.

@sonship said
And thanks for your stupid word picture about wheels falling off or whatever.

It's an idiom. It means someone loses their composure.

@sonship said
Padding weak arguments with colorful words I guess is fair.

I have not made any arguments, weak or otherwise. I have simply described something that happened which you are going to deal with by claiming you cannot remember it.

It lasted for about 5 pages and included gossip about something you had heard someone say they'd heard about something mean and self-undermining Ehrman had supposedly said off-mic after a panel discussion and it included you elevating some nobody community college guitar playing certificate holder ~ with amateurish videoclips on the interwebz - above Ehrman.

It rings NO BELLS whatsoever.

I cannot imagine any discussion about what someone like Ehrman said off the microphone. And the music stuff and Ehrman makes no sense to me.

It seems that you employed this connection BEFORE about something totally different - ie. something AND some music stuff.

Maybe you are confusing me with someone else.
Perish the thought - but FMF COULD be mistaken.

I think you tried to walk back some of the hilarous twaddle that you were coming out with in that het-up posting-too-fast-for-your-own-good kind of way you get sometimes.

Well since you cannot prove it we'll just have to take your flimsy word for it ??

I'll pass.

Get me for something that you KNOW I really did.

If you don't recall it, then what an oddball you can be.

If people think I am lying about it, so be it.

Perish the thought!! You could not be lying but mistaken.

you elevating some nobody community college guitar playing certificate holder

????????

By the way, having nothing to do with these debates. Could you link me to your song collection again ? It just a music thing.

@sonship said

It lasted for about 5 pages and included gossip about something you had heard someone say they'd heard about something mean and self-undermining Ehrman had supposedly said off-mic after a panel discussion and it included you elevating some nobody community college guitar playing certificate holder ~ with amateurish videoclips on the interwebz - above Ehrman.

...[text shortened]... g about it, so be it. [/quote]

Perish the thought!! You could not be lying but mistaken.

Sure. You don't remember. OK.