20 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidRegardless of what you think about the Trinity Doctrine, do you accept
I have to agree (generally) with VS on this one. I see it the other way. I see Jesus clearly naming 3 separate entities. From the very beginning of the bible; God and Holy Spirit were treated as separate entities. While God created the universe, the Holy Spirit hovered over the surface of the waters. That's the 2nd verse straight out of the gate.
I t ...[text shortened]... the only way I see it happening.
Grace and peace to you my beloved brother in Christ!!!!
the Deity of Christ? Is He God?
http://www.craom.net/deityofchrist.htm
http://www.jimfeeney.org/deityofjesuschrist.html
20 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsbaptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
The closes text that comes close to what you ask for is Matthew 28:18-19.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given
to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I h ...[text shortened]... r is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, etc.
P.S. Yet, the text is clear there is only ONE God.
Holy Spirit,
Acts 2:38 gives us the name of the Father, Son and God's Holy Spirit to be baptized in. Jesus.
21 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsI know where you are going and I already thought about it after I posted my last post. I saw it coming.
So you believe in three Gods or is the Father or the Holy Spirit not God?
This does cause me to take pause.
I'm going to have to meditate on this and pray. Thanks for taking the time, brother.
22 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsi think you have it all wrong. you can't explain it, you can try to plead you case and all your pleading won't change the fact that there is no trinity in the bible. the concept is not mentioned, it's not even brought up.
I already know you are too ignorant to understand anything spiritual
so there is no point in me trying to explain it to you. It is way over
your head.
for such a central dogma in the christian religion, the bible is eerily quiet on the subject. instead, we get the opposite constantly drilled in, 'hear oh israel, the lord our god is one lord."
there is no ambiguity there. no extrapolation, no speculation or guesswork, there is no room for debate. it's clear, direct text describing exactly the kind of god you should be worshiping.
22 Oct 11
Originally posted by VoidSpiritWhatever you wish to believe is okay with me, for I don't really care.
i think you have it all wrong. you can't explain it, you can try to plead you case and all your pleading won't change the fact that there is no trinity in the bible. the concept is not mentioned, it's not even brought up.
for such a central dogma in the christian religion, the bible is eerily quiet on the subject. instead, we get the opposite consta ...[text shortened]... ate. it's clear, direct text describing exactly the kind of god you should be worshiping.
I do see the evidence for the Trinity idea in the Holy Bible and I am not
arrogant enough to say that this accepted church doctrine is wrong
without sufficient evidence. One must consider the whole of scripture
available before making a judgment. I believe I have considered all
available evidence from both sides of this issue and the church Doctrine
of the Trinity still stands, in my opinion.
22 Oct 11
1 edit
A number of you brothers have said "I don't believe in the Trinity".
This question of mine is not directed towards any of the Jehovah's Witnesses but to the Christian brothers, those who claim Christ as their Lord and Savior:
Could each of you who have said "I don't believe in any Trinity" please specify for me what it is exactly that you do not believe ?
I am not always sure what it is that you are saying you do NOT accept when you say "I don't believe in any Trinity".
Specifically, what is it that you do not believe, related to the word "Trinity" ?
22 Oct 11
Originally posted by jaywillI believe in taking the words of Christ literally unless there is very good reason not to. Christ said he was the SON of God and referred to God as his Father.
A number of you brothers have said "I don't believe in the Trinity".
This question of mine is not directed towards any of the Jehovah's Witnesses but to the Christian brothers, those who claim Christ as their Lord and Savior:
Could each of you who have said "I don't believe in any Trinity" please specify for me what it is exactly that you do not ...[text shortened]... ifically, what is it that you do [b]not believe, related to the word "Trinity" ?[/b]
Plus Paul said:
1Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The head of Christ is God. Therefore they cannot be equal. They are separate and distinct entities but one in purpose.
22 Oct 11
Originally posted by Rajk999Thanks Rajk999.
I believe in taking the words of Christ literally unless there is very good reason not to. Christ said he was the SON of God and referred to God as his Father.
Plus Paul said:
1Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The head of Christ is God. Therefore they cannot be equal. They are separate and distinct entities but one in purpose.
I believe in taking the words of Christ literally unless there is very good reason not to. Christ said he was the SON of God and referred to God as his Father.
Should I assume from this the following:
Rajk999 does not believe in any "Trinity" teaching which denies that Jesus was the SON of God ?
If there is a "Trinity" teaching which teaches that Jesus is not the Son of God, that is not a Trinity that I believe in. I would agree with you that such teaching not affirming Christ as Son of God, should not be believed.
I am not aware though, of any Trinity teaching that Jesus was not SON of God according to His words.
Are you?
Plus Paul said:
1Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
I will deduce from this the following:
You are opposed to any "Trinity" teaching that denies that either Christ is the head of every man or that the woman's head is the man, OR that the head of Christ is God ?
I am not aware of any Trinity teaching which denies 1 Cor. 11:3. Maybe one exists.
The head of Christ is God. Therefore they cannot be equal. They are separate and distinct entities but one in purpose.
Now you are moving OUT of a distpute on quotation and into a dispute on theological interpretation.
Do you have a quote of Jesus saying that He is "SEPARATE" from God ?
I deduce from this that Rajk999 rejects any "Trinity" teaching which does not insist on a clear separation between God and Christ.
So taking in ALL of the utterances of the Bible concerning the Son of God, you are persuaded that an absolute SEPARATION between God and Christ is the only orthodox teaching concerning Jesus Christ ?
Before you affirmed that taking the words of Christ literally was your firm intention. Where literally do I find Jesus using the actual word "SEPARATE" in regards to Himself and God ?
22 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsi don't wish to believe anything, i just accept what is before me. place the bible before me and i will not find a trinity in it. neither will you. consider the entire scripture as you must. there is no trinity. read every page carefully, still no trinity. read it backwards and sideways. no trinity.
Whatever you wish to believe is okay with me, for I don't really care.
I do see the evidence for the Trinity idea in the Holy Bible and I am not
arrogant enough to say that this accepted church doctrine is wrong
without sufficient evidence. One must consider the whole of scripture
available before making a judgment. I believe I have considered all
ava ...[text shortened]... m both sides of this issue and the church Doctrine
of the Trinity still stands, in my opinion.
ask any of the alleged prophets, seers, acolytes and the son of god. not one of them mentions the trinity nature of god.
this very important, central nature of god, and the bible has nothing to say about it. only in extra-biblical christian dogma with their disjointed and twisted interpretations of ambiguous scripture will you find any mention of a trinity.
the only thing you have considered is what the church has told you, you have not considered the bible.
22 Oct 11
Originally posted by VoidSpirittell it like it is brutha!
i don't wish to believe anything, i just accept what is before me. place the bible before me and i will not find a trinity in it. neither will you. consider the entire scripture as you must. there is no trinity. read every page carefully, still no trinity. read it backwards and sideways. no trinity.
ask any of the alleged prophets, seers, acolyt ...[text shortened]... y thing you have considered is what the church has told you, you have not considered the bible.
22 Oct 11
3 edits
Originally posted by jaywillI categorically deny the Godhead being formed of three persons, distinct, separate or other wise.
A number of you brothers have said "I don't believe in the Trinity".
This question of mine is not directed towards any of the Jehovah's Witnesses but to the Christian brothers, those who claim Christ as their Lord and Savior:
Could each of you who have said "I don't believe in any Trinity" please specify for me what it is exactly that you do not ifically, what is it that you do [b]not believe, related to the word "Trinity" ?[/b]
We worship a jealous God who is singular in entity and who is unchanging. The fact that man cannot figure out the mystery of God in Christ without creating a triune of persons is testament to his limited faith in the core nature of He who is the I AM; and is still the son saviour who before Abraham - was.
Christ is the same singular entity made a little lower than the angels, wrapped in a "veil" of flesh that was "torn" to allow us unlimited access to the most holy place of God's rest.
The Spirit is the same singular entity who has poured himself out in order to dwell in the heart of his people.
Again I say, the fact that people cannot figure out how multiple sometimes simultaneous manifestations of the same singular God can occur - does not mean that we need a Trinity.
Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is ONE. "And I change NOT"
22 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterHe who is the I AM; and before Abraham was???
I categorically deny the Godhead being formed of three persons, distinct, separate or other wise.
We worship a jealous God who is singular in entity and who is unchanging. The fact that man cannot figure out the mystery of God in Christ without creating a triune of persons is testament to to his limited faith in the core nature of He who is the I AM; occur - does not mean that we need a Trinity.
Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God in ONE.
not even proper English and is not supported by either the Hebrew nor the Greek text.
Simply an instance of inaccurate translation leading to erroneous assumptions and
unsubstantiated beliefs.