17 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsthat's what the text says.
You can't be serious.
the problem with you is that you're coming from a preexisting belief in a trinity and trying to find supporting text from the bible.
in actuality, if you read the text without a preexisting trinity belief, then you will not find evidence of a trinity there. the trinity concept is a foreign dogma that scratched and clawed itself into christian ideology over time as it absorbed pagans who were familiar with a trinity doctrine from their own religions.
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by Krapsparovtrue that. always when confronted, jesus denies being god, always claims the father is greater, claims his power is borrowed and that he will lose it once his mission of defeating death is complete.
John 14:28
My father is greater than I
There is nowhere to go from there - even Jesus does not recognise the trinity.
now what isn't clear about his mission is the scope. does he mean defeat death concerning himself? if this is so then his mission is already complete and he no longer has power. if he instead meant defeating death altogether then he still has a few decades until science discovers the aging gene.
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by galveston75This everyday guy has completely ignored everything Jesus said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnJzF2RB3E&feature=related
Ok here is an everyday guy that has used some common sense and has done the research that anyone can do. Probably within an hour of doing what he's done, anyone can use the same common sense he's used and can see the untruthfullness of the trinity.
Read your Bible............
about the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
He does not tell the whole story, but only that part that seems to prove
his position. He is probably a JW.
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by VoidSpiritWell yes he did mean himself in his immediate future. He knew that his Father, Jehovah would resurrect him.
true that. always when confronted, jesus denies being god, always claims the father is greater, claims his power is borrowed and that he will lose it once his mission of defeating death is complete.
now what isn't clear about his mission is the scope. does he mean defeat death concerning himself? if this is so then his mission is already complete an ...[text shortened]... eating death altogether then he still has a few decades until science discovers the aging gene.
But it also shows that in the future his Father, God would give him the power to be in contro of not only a heavenly resurrection but one on a grand scale which is what the faithful men of old, such as Noah, Abraham knew of.
They never knew of anyone going to heaven before Jesus brought that hope forward to his deciples. The bible doesn't ever say all good people will go to heaven but that a "great crowd" will "enherit the earth."
17 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsWell it seems the trinitarians are the ones guility of that..... No clue to what the whole Bible is saying. Only a couple scriptures that would slightly lean that way if one were predisposed to the trinity.
This everyday guy has completely ignored everything Jesus said
about the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
He does not tell the whole story, but only that part that seems to prove
his position. He is probably a JW.
And dude your missing the point that not just the JW's are here showing proof that the trinty is paganistic.
You WANT to believe it so it's stuck in your head.
17 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritThis will all be resolved in heaven. All that matters now is that we put our
that's what the text says.
the problem with you is that you're coming from a preexisting belief in a trinity and trying to find supporting text from the bible.
in actuality, if you read the text without a preexisting trinity belief, then you will not find evidence of a trinity there. the trinity concept is a foreign dogma that scratched and clawed ...[text shortened]... time as it absorbed pagans who were familiar with a trinity doctrine from their own religions.
trust and faith in the only one that can save us and call on the name of
the Lord Jesus (Yah shua).
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by galveston75The "great Crowd" is in heaven. (Revelation 7:9)
Well yes he did mean himself in his immediate future. He knew that his Father, Jehovah would resurrect him.
But it also shows that in the future his Father, God would give him the power to be in contro of not only a heavenly resurrection but one on a grand scale which is what the faithful men of old, such as Noah, Abraham knew of.
They never knew of ...[text shortened]... er say all good people will go to heaven but that a "great crowd" will "enherit the earth."
17 Oct 11
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75As I see it, this throne is the same throne mentioned in Chapter 4,
Are we not before the throne on earth? And palm branches in heaven? Right....
which is clearly stated to be in heaven. There is no statement that
says a throne has yet been set up on earth. I can not see how the
presents of palm branches rules out that the throne is still the same
throne mentioned before, that is in heaven.
P.S. If you go on over to Chapter 16 verse 1 says the seven angels
are to pour out the bowls of the wrath of God into the earth. Then
we see in verse 10 that the 5th bowl is being pour out on the throne
of the beast, which obviously is on earth. Then finally in chapter 19,
After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying,
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God; BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER.” And a second time they said, “Hallelujah! HER SMOKE RISES UP FOREVER AND EVER.” And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!” And a voice came from the throne, saying,
“Give praise to our God, all you His bond-servants, you who fear Him, the small and the great.” Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying,
“Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by divegeesterThis means they are one God, but they are not the same person.
The Trinity teaches 3 distinct persons, I don't accept that. God is one person.
"I and the Father are one"
The Son is not the Father, nor is the Father the Son. The Father
and Son share in the one Divine nature, if it is right to call it that.
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17 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidIf you read the scriptures it is there....
divegeesters god came and made himself lower than the angels?
I've never heard of such a god.
Psalm 8
O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth, Who have displayed Your splendor above the heavens!
From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength, Because of Your adversaries, To make the enemy and the revengeful cease.
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;
What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him?
Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet, (Jesus has all things under his feet - my edit)
All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field, The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.
O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth!
And in Heb 2:8
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.