17 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsnot your reasoning ability, your ability to remain objective which will undoubtedly taint
No, I have it downloaded on my computer; but I am not really that interested
in that subject, besides I have had to take my wife for cancer radiation
treatment every weekday and I've had a big debate going on with the JWs,
with no result l might add. I guess that is over now for they claim I have
a warped mind or some such problem that has effected my reasoning
ability.
your ability to be reasonable.
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsbut I am not really that interested in that subject
No, I have it downloaded on my computer; but I am not really that interested
in that subject, besides I have had to take my wife for cancer radiation
treatment every weekday and I've had a big debate going on with the JWs,
with no result l might add. I guess that is over now for they claim I have
a warped mind or some such problem that has effected my reasoning
ability.
That doesn't come as a surprise.
17 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterThey are one and the same, just as you are DG, Dive, geester etc. You can not consider one without considering the other. Also the Hebrews had many different names for God, that doesn't mean they were worshipping multitudes of gods. 🙂
Excellent quote CP. And they (the disciples) never did that; they always baptised in the name of Jesus. This is the given name for this time "the only name by which we may be saved".
Edit: I'll go further: Jesus therefore, is the current name of the father and of the son and of the holy ghost.
I consider the Trinity to be somewhat gnostic knowledge. IMO
17 Oct 11
Originally posted by ChessPraxisIt is a revelation from Yahshua the Messiah.
They are one and the same, just as you are DG, Dive, geester etc. You can not consider one without considering the other. Also the Hebrews had many different names for God, that doesn't mean they were worshipping multitudes of gods. 🙂
I consider the Trinity to be somewhat gnostic knowledge. IMO
20 Oct 11
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsIf you agree with, and only with God... then the Trinity Doctrine would have to be extrapolated--very plainly--from the written Word.
I agree with Yahshua.
Please cite one or more texts from the bible that unambiguously and directly support the Trinity Doctrine. If you succeed then I will be a very, very happy person. I am not pursuing this to argue; I want to learn how the Trinity Doctrine is directly supported. I have not seen it before but perhaps I missed it. However, I'm not prepared to add to God's Word and come up with the conclusion all my own; afterall, Paul said let anyone who does so be accursed.
Don't forget, my brother, that for something this serious to have to be revealed to us as some kind of revelation is not consistent with the other important teachings of the bible that make no bones about it--they are very clear. If some kind of revelation or special knowledge or intelligence is involved here then we are either talking (a) heresy, or (b) the lesser intelligent people are left out of the equation.
We are to be like faithful children, says Christ. I don't think it's even possible for a child to read the bible and come away with a Trinity Doctrine, if left on their own devices.
20 Oct 11
3 edits
Originally posted by sumydidThe closes text that comes close to what you ask for is Matthew 28:18-19.
If you agree with, and only with God... then the Trinity Doctrine would have to be extrapolated--very plainly--from the written Word.
Please cite one or more texts from the bible that unambiguously and directly support the Trinity Doctrine. If you succeed then I will be a very, very happy person. I am not pursuing this to argue; I want to learn how the hild to read the bible and come away with a Trinity Doctrine, if left on their own devices.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given
to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded
you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Here we have three persons combined under one name. This one name
refers to the name of God. There are other verses that establish that
the Father is God, and the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.
Other texts make it clear that they are persons and different persons.
The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, etc.
P.S. Yet, the text is clear there is only ONE God.
20 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsthat's nothing at all even close to describing a trinity. those are three different individuals, not three different 'persons' of one individual.
The closes text that comes close to what you ask for is Matthew 28:18-19.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given
to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I h ...[text shortened]... that they are persons and different persons.
The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, etc.
20 Oct 11
Originally posted by VoidSpiritI already know you are too ignorant to understand anything spiritual
that's nothing at all even close to describing a trinity. those are three different individuals, not three different 'persons' of one individual.
so there is no point in me trying to explain it to you. It is way over
your head.
20 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidThis is probably the closest and even so its not on the button :
If you agree with, and only with God... then the Trinity Doctrine would have to be extrapolated--very plainly--from the written Word.
Please cite one or more texts from the bible that unambiguously and directly support the Trinity Doctrine. If you succeed then I will be a very, very happy person. I am not pursuing this to argue; I want to learn how the ...[text shortened]... hild to read the bible and come away with a Trinity Doctrine, if left on their own devices.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
By the way I dont believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.
20 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI have to agree (generally) with VS on this one. I see it the other way. I see Jesus clearly naming 3 separate entities. From the very beginning of the bible; God and Holy Spirit were treated as separate entities. While God created the universe, the Holy Spirit hovered over the surface of the waters. That's the 2nd verse straight out of the gate.
The closes text that comes close to what you ask for is Matthew 28:18-19.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given
to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I h ...[text shortened]... r is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, etc.
P.S. Yet, the text is clear there is only ONE God.
I tell you... something in the back of my mind is warning me that the Trinity Doctrine was drummed up in the early days of the Church, in order to conveniently dodge what might be seen as inconsistencies in the bible.
Again, and your verse helps me understand it to an even greater degree. The bible just isn't crystal clear on the Trinity Doctrine.
Now I will say this, and I think it's pretty obvious. The Trinity Doctrine if true or if untrue, is not a necessary component in justification.
Therefore, I do not fear being unjustified if I fail to adhere to the doctrine, and I do not feel compelled to spend the necessary years getting to the bottom of it.
The primary teachings of the bible as relates to justification are simple enough for a child to understand. The rest is secondary and beyond.
It would be NICE, if I knew the absolute truth absolutely, but, since the bible isn't crystal clear on it, I am certain I will never change my conclusion. If God intends otherwise, then things will undoubtedly change. But His intervention is the only way I see it happening.
Grace and peace to you my beloved brother in Christ!!!!