Have you ever met any non-believers who...

@fmf said
Have you ever met any non-believers who actually and literally fear retribution and punishment at the hands of the Christian God?

If so, how did they explain it?

Only once . "Just covering all the bases in case I am wrong " was what he said when I asked why he had become a church goer in his later years.

@moonbus said
Yes, you nailed it. Fear is not rational and belief is only sometimes so or only partially so. Sometimes fear and belief and reason jive, sometimes they don't. So, yes, some people are confused, and frightened, both at once.

That leaves the question of what could possibly be the moral purpose of making unbelievable threats of retribution and punishment at the hands of the Christian God and aiming them at non-believers? "Divine" moral logic surely would not be so weak and half-baked ~ if there were to be such a thing.

@moonbus said
Yes, you nailed it. Fear is not rational and belief is only sometimes so or only partially so. Sometimes fear and belief and reason jive, sometimes they don't. So, yes, some people are confused, and frightened, both at once.

I call it the 'Inferno Tennis Ball Effect.' (I will sue anyone who copies that expression without written permission).

Imagine someone is going to throw you a tennis ball to catch from close range. (A gentle underarm throw). Now, you believe 100% that you will catch the ball. You are as confident as you could be that you would catch it. - But then you discover that if you were to drop the tennis ball (no matter how impossible that was) you 'COULD' as a direct consequence (as impossible as that sounded) spend all eternity burning in hell...

Would you still be as confident in your catch?

@fmf said
That leaves the question of what could possibly be the moral purpose of making unbelievable threats of retribution and punishment at the hands of the Christian God and aiming them at non-believers? "Divine" moral logic surely would not be so weak and half-baked ~ if there were to be such a thing.

At the time these ancient documents were written, 'fear' of such things was a bigger motivator. Fire and Brimstone preachers don't get so much traction in the modern age.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
At the time these ancient documents were written, 'fear' of such things was a bigger motivator. Fire and Brimstone preachers don't get so much traction in the modern age.

In other words, it's a rather primitive take on morality.

@FMF

For someone for whom it doesn't matter one way or the other you sure like to harp on the subject.

Shrug, Yawn

" Why it means nothing to me one way or the other."

- post after post after post after post on damnation.
"Talk about it. Talk about it. Talk about it."

@sonship said
@FMF

For someone for whom it doesn't matter one way or the other you sure like to harp on the subject.

I find the moral incoherence of your "perfect morality" interesting.

@sonship said
- post after post after post after post on damnation.
"Talk about it. Talk about it. Talk about it."

You are the forum's Colonel Kurtz.

@FMF

I find the moral incoherence of your "perfect morality" interesting.

I find the incoherence of there not being an ultimate perfect moral Being.

That's the incoherence of atheism.

@suzianne said
Rather than a specific, like vampires, when I was a little kid (6 or 7, by adolescence I was pretty comfortable in the dark in my room) the thing to be afraid of at night was more along the lines of generic 'monsters'. And yes, word among my friends and I was that there was indeed something magical about bedcovers, the monsters couldn't touch them, so as long as you were under them, you were safe. 🙂

Certain tunes, if sung, hummed, or whistled, are also effective in warding off monsters. Even if they are deaf. "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down..." is one of them.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I call it the 'Inferno Tennis Ball Effect.' (I will sue anyone who copies that expression without written permission).

Imagine someone is going to throw you a tennis ball to catch from close range. (A gentle underarm throw). Now, you believe 100% that you will catch the ball. You are as confident as you could be that you would catch it. - But then you discover that ...[text shortened]... hat sounded) spend all eternity burning in hell...

Would you still be as confident in your catch?

I call this the 'don't look down effect' and I copyright it.

You learn to walk a tightrope two inches above ground until you can do it blindfolded. Now try it across the Grand Canyon. Even on a windless day, it's the same but it's not the same.

The salient difference is that one imagines different possible consequences of getting it wrong. Imagination is quite sufficient to engender fear, even if the likelihood of the consequences is improbable or remote in time.

@moonbus said
I call this the 'don't look down effect' and I copyright it.

You learn to walk a tightrope two inches above ground until you can do it blindfolded. Now try it across the Grand Canyon. Even on a windless day, it's the same but it's not the same.

The salient difference is that one imagines different possible consequences of getting it wrong. Imagination is quite sufficient to engender fear, even if the likelihood of the consequences is improbable or remote in time.

I have a salient fear of jelly. (And the many possible consequences of getting it wrong).

Am I alone in this?

Speak now...

@sonship said
I find the incoherence of there not being an ultimate perfect moral Being.

That's the incoherence of atheism.

Why would it torture people in burning flames for eternity after they die? What would be the "moral" purpose of that?