05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidKellyJay?
So forgiveness, access to mercy and escape from the most incredibly horrendous torture imaginable, is due to a persons decision to believe a “call from god”? Or is it due to the sovereignty of God and not of our own effort?
05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidSo you are proposing that "sins" that have repercussions that last "from generation to generation", morally speaking, deserve punishment that lasts for eternity, even after those [finite] repercussions are no longer felt.
I thought he was doing a good job; some crimes, some sins, effects go through time from generation to generation; they don't stop when they are done.
05 Jan 22
@fmf saidWe can see things in this temporary universe as they affect us right at the moment, but love and compassion can be felt through generations as well, as Jim's life was the man I told you about who just died.
So you are proposing that "sins" that have repercussions that last "from generation to generation", morally speaking, deserve punishment that lasts for eternity, even after those [finite] repercussions are no longer felt.
Someone who sins, what they do affects this universe not just within the sinner, but all of the sinners crimes are against God as God takes everything done to each of us as crimes against Him since He is responsible for His creation, so every sin, every wrong, every hurtful action, every act of selfishness at the expense of the innocent are all against God as well, and being against God as well are all eternal crimes. Even when we take revenge, revenge belongs to the Lord, not us.
05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidWhy do you want to look at scripture? You don't take it as an authority. You use the only authority you recognize. You cast off entire books of the Bible because of how you think about them. Why would I want to discuss scripture with someone who thinks they are above such things?
Please provide scriptural evidence for this because I think you have just made it up.
@kellyjay saidI do take it as authority, but I’m not the one making the assertion, you are.
Why do you want to look at scripture? You don't take it as an authority. You use the only authority you recognize. You cast off entire books of the Bible because of how you think about them. Why would I want to discuss scripture with someone who thinks they are above such things?
You repeatedly claim that your opinions are robustly rooted in scripture, so I’m asking YOU to stand up for your assertion and for YOU to provide the scriptures which led you to what I feel is a made up piece of rhetoric.
You claimed “ You commit a crime against an eternal God; that crime is eternal, not temporary.”
Can you do this?
05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidHow does my lack of belief in your God figure "affect this universe"?
Someone who sins, what they do affects this universe not just within the sinner, but all of the sinners crimes are against God as God takes everything done to each of us as crimes against Him since He is responsible for His creation
@kellyjay saidAll I am hearing here about your reasoning is the assertion that ...all sins against God are eternal crimes. It's just an assertion. If you extend it, it can become circular reasoning, thusly: ...all sins against God are eternal crimes - because they are eternal crimes - because they are crimes against God - which makes them eternal crimes etc.
So every sin, every wrong, every hurtful action, every act of selfishness at the expense of the innocent are all against God as well, and being against God as well are all eternal crimes.
If my selfishness, say, results in some harm coming to my family, which ceases on the event of my death, and I am not forgiven for this by your God figure because I am a non-believer, what would be the justification for STILL burning me in flames in 300,000,000,000 years from now and then for eternity beyond that?
05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidKellyJay?
So forgiveness, access to mercy and escape from the most incredibly horrendous torture imaginable, is due to a persons decision to believe a “call from god”? Or is it due to the sovereignty of God and not of our own effort?
05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidIt is God’s grace through faith we are saved, in Christ without Him we can do nothing, He is the Way, Truth, and the Life no one comes to the Father but through Him. You don’t have the Son, you don’t have the Father.
KellyJay?