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The numb-skullinization of Ghost of a Chance's criticisms of Witness Lee are exposed.
It is because of Christ LIVING in a mingled way with His people FROM WITHIN . . . that they can "imitate" Him and be victorious.
"You are of God, little children; and you have overcome them because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)
The "little children" are children of the Father God, having been begotten.
This is beyond them having just been created by God.
He is now IN THEM. For He, Jesus Christ, became a life giving Spirit.
"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)
As the life giving Spirit who is Christ Himself in His "pneumatic" form the Victor living IN the children is greater than the Devil who is in the world.
Excuse me inventing the term "numb-skullinization". But let's be realistic as Bible readers. The One IN the children of God is the unique Victor and Overcomer causing us by His union of life with us to overcome. We must cooperate.
"These things I have spoken to you that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have affliction, but take courage; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
@pb1022 saidRight. I've said this many times, but "What is time to God?"
Well as much as I dislike parting company with you suzianne, on this issue we are on opposite sides, though likely not for the reason you may think.
The creation account in the Holy Bible is not the reason I don’t believe the theory of evolution. I don’t believe the theory of evolution because I don’t think anywhere near sufficient evidence exists to support it - and a lot ...[text shortened]... hat one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
(2 Peter 3:8)
However, I think the major mistake the religionists make about evolution is that they see it as the atheist sees it. God is greater than that.
"The complexity of the cell and DNA, which weren’t known in Darwin’s time, also make his theory less credible as this is yet another layer of highly complex, interdependent material that supposedly developed by blind chance (random mutations and natural selection - when most mutations are either harmful or neutral to an organism.)"
"Blind chance". First of all, natural selection is not "blind chance". It is the idea that organisms that are better suited to their environments tend to live longer and have more offspring. This I find obvious. Now "random mutations" is something that those not believing in God use to claim God had no hand in it and that a God is not necessary. Then you go on to claim that "most mutations are either harmful or neutral". You say these things, yet you believe in a God. My God uses evolution as a tool to move the process along naturally so that those with no belief in God can still persist in their non-belief through the exercise and maintenance of free will. Yes, I believe there are "random mutations" and that a lot of these are detrimental. These add credence to those who have no belief in a God, that evolution progresses even in the face of these things. I maintain that God set the clockwork in motion and then delivered "tweaks" to the system a) to keep it moving, and b) to keep the end goal in sight. Not every "random mutation" was random, and certainly, in light of this, not all mutations are "harmful". This I find startling, that some Christians can think their God zapped everything into existence, fully formed, and yet they have a problem with him just pushing evolution in the right directions. Evolution is part of the Creator's "toolbox" and therefore, success depends on him wielding it correctly, and NOT leaving EVERYthing up to "random chance".
And why do you think an omnipotent being would need to rest at the end of creation? Because there was a LOT to do. It wasn't just "poof" here, and "zap" there.
Natural processes were vital in Creation in order to make it appear to be all natural, as those with no belief in God believe. And, of course, this is not "beyond God", as some YECs say (only in not so many words).
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Ghost of a Chance, in case you didn't know, rejects the entire Christian message pretty much from A to Z.
But he us here to heroically protect his beloved rejected traditional Christianity from cult influence. The problem is that he cannot divide the so called cult influence from the words of the Bible.
He is saying in essence "Get back to the rejected Christianity which I love to hold as hooey as an atheist." All we are doing in the local churches is pointing out the rest of the New Testament which has been neglected.
Watch now as Ghost of a Chance has no way to deny -
Christ became a life giving Spirit to impart Himself into His redeemed,
He is divine life and will SWALLOW us UP in that life,
We Christians are "partakers of the divine nature" .
We believers *(every one of us regardless of where we meet) are not just spectators of what Ghost says doesn't exist.
We believers are not just "imitators" of that nature like a circus dog walking as a man on its hind legs.
We are not just admirers, onlookers, observers of the divine nature.
We are according to that cult leader the Apostle Peter - "partakers of the divine nature." He didn't get the memo that he should NOT follow Witness Lee.
" . . . He has granted to us exceedingly great promises that through these you might become PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE . . ." (2 Peter 1:4a)
Please excuse me for raising my voice. But this is the New Testament speaking to us. That us just as it speaks to us about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,"
The latter is called by some "the golden rule".
Here literally we who receive the Lord Jesus are partakers of the golden NATURE.
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Let's look at the whole verse.
"Through which He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust." (2 Pet. 1:4)
Any who want to escape the corruption which is in the world by lust should receive the Divine Person of Jesus Christ into their heart and partake of His nature to be empowered, enabled, and supplied to escape the world INTO God.
God is enterable.
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The Triune God is enterable.
So says the Lord Jesus.
"In that day you will know that I am in My Father and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20)
What would happen if we awoke in the morning proclaiming this and standing upon this fact?
God in Christ can enter into us. And God is in Him so entering into us is God entering into us. It is also us entering into Christ. And Christ is God-man.
In the day of resurrection and our receiving Him we shall know that we are in Him. But the Father is in Him and He is in the Father and both are in us and bring us into the Father and the Son through the Holy Spirit.
This is the revelation that I want to follow.
Then He says quite without first getting permission from Witness Lee -
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, he is the one who who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father (who is in the Son) . . . who can come into His lovers) , and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him." ( John 14:21)
If you receive the resurrected and reigning Lord Jesus Christ, He will manifest Himself to you from within you. God is in Him. God is Him become a man. And the man became a life imparting divine Spirit.
" . . . the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 14:45)
Not copyrighted by Witness Lee but uttered by the Apostle Paul.
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@suzianne said<<"Blind chance". First of all, natural selection is not "blind chance".
Right. I've said this many times, but "What is time to God?"
However, I think the major mistake the religionists make about evolution is that they see it as the atheist sees it. God is greater than that.
"The complexity of the cell and DNA, which weren’t known in Darwin’s time, also make his theory less credible as this is yet another layer of highly complex, interde ...[text shortened]... od believe. And, of course, this is not "beyond God", as some YECs say (only in not so many words).
It is the idea that organisms that are better suited to their environments tend to live longer and have more offspring. This I find obvious.>>
Ok, so what’s the driving force behind speciation? If you’ve got a species of animal perfectly adapted to its environment, why does it gradually become another species?
And it is blind chance because natural selection has nothing to act on until the blind chance of random mutations takes place.
<<Then you go on to claim that "most mutations are either harmful or neutral".>>
As far as I know, that’s a fact.
<<You say these things, yet you believe in a God.>>
Right, because we live in a fallen world.
The rest of your post is interesting but it’s your opinion and I honestly don’t think you have evidence to back it up - from a Biblical standpoint or a naturalistic standpoint.
I’m telling you, and obviously you don’t have to believe me, the theory of evolution is garbage. There’s practically no evidence to support the idea that one species turned into another species by random mutations and natural selection, and there’s a lot of evidence against it.
Believe what you want to believe, but that theory will one day be revealed as the biggest scientific fraud of the 21st- and 20th centuries.
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@sonship saidHere's a good example of Witness Lee's numb-skullinization:
The numb-skullinization of Ghost of a Chance's criticisms of Witness Lee are exposed.
It is because of Christ LIVING in a mingled way with His people FROM WITHIN . . . that they can "imitate" Him and be victorious.
"You are of God, little children; and you have overcome them because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)
Th ...[text shortened]... e. In the world you have affliction, but take courage; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33) [/b]
“Through justification we have come up to the standard of God’s righteousness and correspond with it, so that now He can impart His life to us”
(Recovery Version, Rom. 5:18, note 2).
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“Through justification we have come up to the standard of God’s righteousness and correspond with it, so that now He can impart His life to us”
This sentence concerns Romans 5:18
"So then as it was through one offense unto condemnation to all men, so also it was through one righteous act unto justification of life to all men."
Ghost is saying this is some wacky new heretical idea from Witness Lee.
Paul wrote it.
Martin Luther would have agreed.
D.L. Moody would have said the same.
Billy Graham would have agreed with it.
I know you like to cut and paste. Maybe you better look for more controversial quotations.
OBVIOUSLY, the Apostle Paul's entire teaching on Justification is that we have to be justified according to GOD'S standard of righteousness.
You really want to portray that as a new founded heterodox teaching from Witness Lee?
You were expecting the book of Romans to teach that God justifies us to the standard of righteousness that an ATHIEST has ?
@sonship said.. And Witness Lee and Sonship twisted it.
Paul wrote it.
Martin Luther would have agreed.
D.L. Moody would have said the same.
Billy Graham would have agreed with it.
ITS ALL MEN. Not just people like you... ALL
You know what that means?
The sacrifice of Christ came equally to ALL MEN.
So that whosoever believe what Jesus says [believe on Him], will get eternal life.
Mouth worshippers are not included.
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“Through justification we have come up to the standard of God’s righteousness and correspond with it, so that now He can impart His life to us”
So the village atheist is saying it should only be that God justifies for its own sake. There should be NO REASON why a reconciliation to God should entail He wants to do anything ELSE.
However, in the same chapter Paul says HAVING BEEN . . . justified MUCH MORE . . . we will be saved in His life.
Romans 5:10 - For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled."
IE " I now have you on a righteous standing before Me objectively. Now subjectively let me save you in the realm of my life. - Transformation, Sanctification, Conformation, Glorification and MUCH MORE of these.
1.) Reconciled to God through Christ's death for the righteous God saving us positionally.
2.) So that the righteous God might save us dispositionally in the whole realm of Christ's resurrection life.
Poor Paul the Apostle wasn't warned that he should distance himself from Witness Lee (who hadn't been born for another 2,000 some years).
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@sonship saidBetter the village atheist than the village numb-skull.“Through justification we have come up to the standard of God’s righteousness and correspond with it, so that now He can impart His life to us”
So the village atheist is saying it should only be that God justifies for its own sake. There should be NO REASON why a reconciliation to God should entail He wants to do anything ELSE.
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The book of Romans is the basic outlay of major Christian teaching.
It does not end at chapter three or four.
It goes on for another twelve chapters CLEARLY showing that God justifies men FOR A PURPOSE.
And in the concluding and final chapter, chapter sixteen, Paul describes the vibrant and vital growth and spread of local churches. Here is his destination. Here is the conclusion of the book - growing, vibrant, living and spreading local churches.
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Now to be thorough, Romans 8 is a high peak of the book. Romans 8:28.29 presents in the middle of Romans the high peak panorama view of what God is AFTER in all this salvific work. It is to mass produce His Son. It is to take the PROTOTYE and mass produce many LIKE Him.
Look at it - a high peak panoramic view of His eternal purpose.
" And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
And those whom He foreknew he predestinated,
these He also called;
these He also justified;
and those whom he justified,
these He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28-30)
Paul uses the past tense because from God's viewpoint transcending time it has all already taken place.
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There is clear indication in the writings of Lee and the Local Church that they believe one cannot be saved if he is not in the Local Church. "Finding Christ by the Living Star" tells of three kinds of stars: the "Living Star," which is Christ Himself; the "living stars," which are members of the Local Church; and the "wandering stars," which are all those who are outside the Local Church. Lee writes:
If we follow the wandering stars, eventually our portion will be the same as theirs--the blackness of darkness forever.
. . . If anyone comes to you without a definite standing and certain course, avoid him. The proper standing is the local church, and the right course is to go on in the Spirit in the local church. Never be a wandering star, and never follow a wandering star.
. . . Today the only way for you and me and for anyone to find Christ is to see the living star. Hallelujah! Today the star is not far from us--it is with the local churches. . . .
Today the living star and the living stars are in the local churches. Let us follow them and let us be one of them.[40]
Lee and those in the Local Church apparently consider all those outside the Local Church "wandering stars." And the destiny of these "wandering stars" is "the blackness of darkness forever." Apparently only by being in the Local Church can one be saved. This contradicts his teaching that all one need do to be saved is to say "Oh Lord, Oh Lord, Oh Lord." Which, then, is true?
According to the Bible, neither is true. The belief that all who say "Oh Lord, Oh Lord," regardless of belief, will be saved, is not true. Christ says:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matt. 7:21-23).
The context of this statement shows that it is not simply the doing of good works, or the calling on the name of the Lord, which saves one. What is necessary is belief, or faith (John 6:29; Heb. 11:6; John 8:24; Acts 16:31).
Since the Local Church has a false doctrine of God, it cannot be true that one must be in the Local Church to be saved. We see that both aspects of Lee's teaching on salvation are contrary to God's Word. Yet even if the Local Church did have a true belief about God instead of the false belief it has, and a true belief about salvation instead of its false belief, it would not be the only group in which one could be saved, for Scripture opposes such exclusivism (1 Cor. 1:12-13ff). The exclusivism of the Local Church divides the true Body of Christ, and is contrary to the Bible.
http://blog.moriel.org/church-issues-1/aberrational-theology/18936-the-teachings-of-witness-lee-and-the-local-church.html