17 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyone of your favorite verses is one in which some people are about to reach an very unpleasant end?
One of my favorite verses in the Bible is in Daniel as three of God's followers are about to be burned alive for not bowing down to idols. They turn to the king and tell him that surely God would deliver them, but if not, they will still not bow down to their graven images.
For me, this is faith, even though there is an element of doubt. Basically, you ...[text shortened]... , therefore, cannot be 100% known on how he will respond. Without such resolution, you cave.
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritDo you know what certainty feels like, from earlier in your life? Would a feeling of certainty make you feel comfortable, or uncomfortable? What about relationships -- do you doubt your love for someone, or someone's love for you? I'm just curious because it seems strange that someone could doubt everything.
i doubt everything and that's the healthiest way to live. if you doubt what i said, you're on your way to being healthy.
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by JS357I dont find it strange.
Do you know what certainty feels like, from earlier in your life? Would a feeling of certainty make you feel comfortable, or uncomfortable? What about relationships -- do you doubt your love for someone, or someone's love for you? I'm just curious because it seems strange that someone could doubt everything.
I assume after Voidspirit has evaluated whatever doubtful thing is in front of him then he may trust it or continue to doubt it, based on his own findings.
I am very much the same, i doubt everything before I can vouch for it first hand.
17 Apr 12
Has anyone encountered the Zen notion of "Great Doubt" ?
It is quite an interesting psycological insight. To me it means that as your faith increases ( in my case faith in my own understanding of the universe/god/whatever ) , then so too does your doubt. Until we reach the moment of "Great Doubt" , where we are supposed to transcend doubt forever.. or something along those lines
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by karoly aczelOK maybe it's not permanently doubting everything. Some things pass the test.
I dont find it strange.
I assume after Voidspirit has evaluated whatever doubtful thing is in front of him then he may trust it or continue to doubt it, based on his own findings.
I am very much the same, i doubt everything before I can vouch for it first hand.
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by JS357Depends on the arena. In politics and history, for instance, I tend to seek out things to read that I might be inclined to disagree with. I've always done this and expect I always will. This is clearly connected to the concept of 'healthy doubt'. And in my case is conceivably 'permanent'.
OK maybe it's not permanently doubting everything. Some things pass the test.
17 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by JS357I think its a position more people should adopt.
OK maybe it's not permanently doubting everything. Some things pass the test.
I mean after all is there "news" everyday that is relevant to the area and the people watching or listening to it?
Its a half hour gap (22 mins + ads) and it is supposed to be filled each night.
Thats just ridiculous. A more interactive, precise and informative way to deliver news would be to just say what is important on that day. (I'm talking local news here- if you want international or national news then thats a different kettle of fish).
So some nights it should be like :" Hello , welcome to the news. There is nothing relevant enough to report tonight. If you need a re-hash of the news from last night then please goto [whatever web address] or tune in tonight when we have the 'week in hindsight'. Good night and we here all hope that you and yours are well. Good night. "
How about that? (it was just of the top of my head so maybe it could use tweaking , but you get the general point, right?)
17 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIdeologies are perspectives, usually laid out as plans of action, passed off as "truth", and used by those who advocate them to secure power over others. There's plenty of reason to fear 'ideology without doubt'.
why should [ideology without doubt] evoke fear, you have not said?
17 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo straw at all in my argument chum, but if I needed some I would know where to look.
this is not so fine, independent thought exists despite and sometimes at variance with
social convention, perhaps there is a symbiotic relationship that you mention I dunno.
When was the last time you seen a non rectangular/square frame housing a painting in
a gallery? or someone wearing two necktie's to work? If independent thought is able to ...[text shortened]... e sucked through a
super curly straw coloured straw made in the straw factory at strawtingham!
Forget you are a theist for a moment and employ some independent thought; would you want a triangular picture frame?, how about a hexagonal wheel, or perhaps a star shaped bale of straw. If you do visit a gallery you might see a bisected shark suspended in formaldehyde. If you were to follow these things you may have noticed the traditionalist commentators bemoaning the dominance of the Avant garde in the art world due to the wider public's acceptance of the new.
As for the 1,000,000 anti war marchers, so you know for a fact that the march had no effect on the governments policy in Iraq such as pulling out much earlier than the U.S would have liked, thus reducing the ultimate No of widows.
Clearly your religious indoctrination has rendered you incapable of coherent independent thought, perhaps you could shove a pole up your rear end and sit in a corn field, at least you will be of some use.
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFsecure power over others, LOL, so Christianity, with the idea of self sacrifice as its core,
Ideologies are perspectives, usually laid out as plans of action, passed off as "truth", and used by those who advocate them to secure power over others. There's plenty of reason to fear 'ideology without doubt'.
was an ideology promulgated to secure power over others? just by way of example.
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by kevcvs57Plenty of straw for you, you assumed that I was taking the position that Christianity
No straw at all in my argument chum, but if I needed some I would know where to look.
Forget you are a theist for a moment and employ some independent thought; would you want a triangular picture frame?, how about a hexagonal wheel, or perhaps a star shaped bale of straw. If you do visit a gallery you might see a bisected shark suspended in formaldehyde ...[text shortened]... could shove a pole up your rear end and sit in a corn field, at least you will be of some use.
and other religions was in your own words, 'all the stability and unchanging certainty
that you claim for Christianity or any religion', when in fact i claimed nothing of the
sort, I did not make any claims that I am aware of, but in case i am accused of lying
as is now almost obligatory from the unscrupulous cynics deviod of reason, where
did i claim that Christianity or any other religion was not subject to change? Can you
point it out? If not your assertion was pure straw! sure you can find it in your own
posts if you are willing to look .
Yes i may want a triangular frame, In fact much Byzantine art was housed in Gothic
arch shaped frames. Your assertion of an hexagonal wheel is impractical and pretty
weak, for in order for a wheel to function it need to be circular. People bemoan
modern art because it challenges social convention, not because they understand it,
in fact, there is a Scottish painter Vetrianno, who paints the most banal scenes of
couples dining on beaches with fiddlers present in a very traditional way, critics
loathe it and rightly so, but it appeals to the romantic in people and he sells them by
the cartload and example of social convention overcoming independent thought, so
what have you to say for yourself now?
I know for a fact that it didn't stop the war, your speculative assertions have
absolutely no validity beyond your own imagination, otherwise, prove that pulling
out was influenced by the London March.
clearly adherence to my religion has been a safeguard against every kind of social
and moral whim depending upon the prevailing moral climate and social convention
itself fuelled not by independent thought, but in spite of and contrary to independent
thought.
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieCatholic Church, yes, I reckon. Jehovah's Witness, too, I reckon. Two examples. Yes, forms of ideology, or ideological operations. Institutions in which hierarchies are enshrined and kinds of 'technocrats' control the dogma and thus exert control and require compliance. Explanations, codes for living, outcomes (immortality of various kinds), passed off as "absolute truth". Contempt for reflection and dissent. Fear of genuine debate. The kind of ideological entity that I was talking about in my OP. "Certainty" in such contexts is potentially something to "fear" as another poster put it. I know you won't see eye to eye with me on this one at all, but it is my considered view.
secure power over others, LOL, so Christianity, with the idea of self sacrifice as its core,
was an ideology promulgated to secure power over others? just by way of example.
17 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFhierarchies are enshrined?
Catholic Church, yes, I reckon. Jehovah's Witness, too, I reckon. Two examples. Yes, forms of ideology, or ideological operations. Institutions in which hierarchies are enshrined and kinds of 'technocrats' control the dogma and thus exert control and require compliance. Explanations, codes for living, outcomes (immortality of various kinds), passed off as "absol ...[text shortened]... now you won't see eye to eye with me on this one at all, but it is my considered view.
(Mark 9:34-36) . . .They kept silent, for on the road they had argued among
themselves who is greater. So he sat down and called the twelve and said to them: “If
anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and minister of all.”
This is not corporate ideology at all, in fact, its the opposite of a corporate ideology for
it emphasises not position, but responsibility to help others.