16 Apr 12
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to save us from turning any of these things into - or allowing them to become - "a meaning of life", which I think is rather tragic. Doubt is healthy. It is positive. It is life-affirming. It is the essence of informed free will.
Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
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16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFSkeptics :-)
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.
Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/saganbur.htm
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFI do. It's a good tool to avoid wasting too much time following bad ideas, which seem far more numerous than good ideas.
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.
Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFAre you certain of this? 😛
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.
Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
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16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFI agree with some of this insomuch as having doubts myself. However doubt is not for me, the same thing as unbelief. Doubt springs (as you frame it) from a natural inquisitiveness from never being 100% sure, from needing to rely on faith. And there is where many will part intellectual company. My religion is my faith; except it's not a religion because my doubt prevents it becoming that; it's still faith though, it's given, and not actually a choice.
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.
Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMF(James 1:6-8) . . .for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.
Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from
Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
16 Apr 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, well, what else would a writer trying to establish corporate Christianity - a package of ideology, dogma and speculations-turned-into-certainties, write?
(James 1:6-8) . . .for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from
Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHmm, you cut off the first part of James 1:6. I'd like to go back a bit further.
(James 1:6-8) . . .for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from
Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.The part I find interesting here is 'if you lack wisdom'. I don't read this as a guarantee that God will give you anything and everything you ask for, but rather that you will be given wisdom. Am I reading this wrong?
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFmere unsubstantiated opinion will not carry it FMF, you may like to try to make reference to the actual content of the quotation.
Yes, well, what else would a writer trying to establish corporate Christianity - a package of ideology, dogma and speculations-turned-into-certainties, write?
16 Apr 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYour religionist literature tells you to be certain that your religionist literature is right. This is not for me, robbie.
mere unsubstantiated opinion will not carry it FMF, you may like to try to make reference to the actual content of the quotation.
The content? I am not a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. I do not acknowledge "the Lord" as you perceive and present him, let alone expect to receive anything from him. I am not double-minded and unstable in all I do. There. Refuted, as far as my spiritual path is concerned.
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitYes i think you are correct, its not an carte blanche guarantee that you will receive
Hmm, you cut off the first part of James 1:6. I'd like to go back a bit further.[quote]5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 T ...[text shortened]... d everything you ask for, but rather that you will be given wisdom. Am I reading this wrong?
everything or anything but wisdom, yes, that's sound. Never the less contrast this with
FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such
like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness subject to the winds of social
convention which is the darling of all secular liberalists, whereas he here we are talking
of practicalities, of the application of knowledge in order to act wisely with discernment.
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat "moral morass" are you alleging there is in my life, robbie?
Yes i think you are correct, its not an carte blanche guarantee that you will receive
everything or anything but wisdom, yes, that's sound. Never the less contrast this with
FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such
like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness subject to the winds o ...[text shortened]...
of practicalities, of the application of knowledge in order to act wisely with discernment.
16 Apr 12
Originally posted by FMFHmmmm, i think you are very sensitive to social convention FMF, politically correct
Your religionist literature tells you to be certain that your religionist literature is right. This is not for me, robbie.
The content? I am not a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. I do not acknowledge "the Lord" as you perceive and present him, let alone expect to receive anything from him. I am not double-minded and unstable in all I do. There. Refuted, as far as my spiritual path is concerned.
speech and liberal values which change from epoch to epoch, blown by the
ever-changing seas of secular morality.
16 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFI am not alleging anything in your life FMF, i am merely asserting that because of
What "moral morass" are you alleging there is in my life, robbie?
changes in social convention, your own morality has been formed, are you denying
that this is the case? Indeed one is left with the question, as you have stated your not
a religionists, where then does the values which form your morality come from? One is
left with the conclusion, from the society which surrounds you, where else? If this is
the case, then clearly its susceptible to change, is it not?