@kingdavid403 said
So explain it in your view?

If you have never encountered people who engage in morally sound behaviour and good works while having NO belief in God, then there is no 'explaining' that's going to compensate for that life-experience deficit. You just need to encounter such people, learn something about the nature of "belief" and "lack of belief", and perhaps thereafter desist from making silly assertions about them.

@philokalia said
We're here to discuss meaningful topics related to spirituality, and King David is doing that very well.

He appears to have now admitted - on the other thread - that his post was a "troll move".

@philokalia said
Nothing about what he is saying is a "tangent."

We're here to discuss meaningful topics related to spirituality, and King David is doing that very well.

This is a good thread -- good job, King!

You guys are just stroking each other, and not discussing anything meaningful. If you think you are then please provide some evidence from the teachings of Christ that going to church and reading the bible constitute good works like King David claimed. Bear in mind that the story of the Good Samaritan shows that Christ condemns that notion by showing how simply going to church and reading the bible [practiced by the priest and Levite], without putting the teachings into practice is pointless.

@fmf said
He appears to have now admitted - on the other thread - that his post was a "troll move".

Mostly.
Yep. lol...It worked well also; seeing the tangent that you went on. lol...

@rajk999 said
You guys are just stroking each other, and not discussing anything meaningful. If you think you are then please provide some evidence from the teachings of Christ that going to church and reading the bible constitute good works like King David claimed. Bear in mind that the story of the Good Samaritan shows that Christ condemns that notion by showing how simply going to chur ...[text shortened]... ible [practiced by the priest and Levite], without putting the teachings into practice is pointless.

Sir, for me, I'm basically ignoring you because of your condescending attitude.
The definition of condescending to me = Pompous a$$.
You are not above or below anyone here. When your messages and posts convey a knowledge of this, I will resume discussions with you.
We are ALL a piece of the pie.
Others can speak and do for themselves. This is for just I.

@fmf said
If you have never encountered people who engage in morally sound behaviour and good works while having NO belief in God, then there is no 'explaining' that's going to compensate for that life-experience deficit. You just need to encounter such people, learn something about the nature of "belief" and "lack of belief", and perhaps thereafter desist from making silly assertions about them.

You're dodging the question, again.
I have encountered many who were good moral people that did not have a belief in God.
So please explain your view on why this is?
I gave some "maybe's and guesses"; however, I clearly do not know why.
Please share your view of why this is?

@kingdavid403 said
Sir, for me, I'm basically ignoring you because of your condescending attitude.
The definition of condescending to me = Pompous a$$.
You are not above or below anyone here. When your messages and posts convey a knowledge of this, I will resume discussions with you.
We are ALL a piece of the pie.
Others can speak and do for themselves. This is for just I.

Actually you are ignoring me because I pointed out with clear proof that your doctrine is not of Christ. You are promoting a church doctrine which is contrary to the teachings of Christ. Rather than come out and admit your error you rather wallow in your ignorance.

Again, Jesus's story of the Good Samaritan makes your assertion that good works is reading the bible and going to church, look like utter foolishness.

@kingdavid403 said
Mostly.
Yep. lol...It worked well also; seeing the tangent that you went on. lol...

Your "tangent" is now on a thread of its own.

@kingdavid403 said
You're dodging the question, again.
I have encountered many who were good moral people that did not have a belief in God.

So why do you insist that everyone believes in God whether they admit it or not?

@kingdavid403 said
Why would people do good works without some sort of belief in God or His goodness?

Notions of good and evil ~ and attitudes to doing good and doing bad things ~ are functions of cultures and communities and they are also internalized by individuals and form the basis for their unique moral compasses.

Humans benefit from these things because we are social beings and we want and need to live communally. Societal values and norms, along with people's moral compasses, govern human interactions and so help communities to survive and flourish.

People do good and engage in morally sound behaviour in communal and cultural contexts, whether it is wedded to a specific religious doctrine or not, and regardless of whether it is the result of belief in supernatural things, and this occurs and has evolved because of those benefits.

@fmf said
So why do you insist that everyone believes in God whether they admit it or not?

When you answer my question, I will answer yours to the best of my ability. No more dodging.
Edit: Nice, I'll get back to you on my thoughts.

@kingdavid403 said
When you answer my question, I will answer yours to the best of my ability. No more dodging.

What "dodging"?

@fmf said
Notions of good and evil ~ and attitudes to doing good and doing bad things ~ are functions of cultures and communities and they are also internalized by individuals and form the basis for their unique moral compasses.

Humans benefit from these things because we are social beings and we want and need to live communally. Societal values and norms, along with people's moral com ...[text shortened]... result of belief in supernatural things, and this occurs and has evolved because of those benefits.

Good explanation on your view, thank you.

Being a theist as I, who has a strong belief in the Bible, seeing that many societies have collapsed because they had no morals, (ie Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc). Since these immoral things and people happened in flourishing societies, I'm gonna have to disagree with your current assertions or view points on this subject.
I feel people are good moral people because they choose to be. I know that there was a time when I choose to do immoral actions; and, I knew they were immoral. All I know is why I changed my path.

@kingdavid403 said
I'm gonna have to disagree with your current assertions or viewpoints on this subject. I feel people are good moral people because they choose to be.

Maybe you're simply referring to the application of one's moral compass here. Our moral compasses help us self-govern our interactions with others. Everyone's moral compass ~ which is the product of some combination of nature and nurture [where religious belief, doctrine and observance is part of "nurture"] ~ is unique.

This is why some people sometimes evaluate their own deeds as morally sound even when others don't. Aggregates of these norms and values are used to establish laws. My moral compass forbids me and inhibits me from breaking most of these laws.

The reason I live my life more or less as one of the "good moral people" you mentioned, is because of my character [which is in part the product of "nature"] and which is moulded by socialization and my surroundings and my desire to live successfully in a communal context.

@fmf said
Maybe you're simply referring to the application of one's moral compass here. Our moral compasses help us self-govern our interactions with others. Everyone's moral compass ~ which is the product of some combination of nature and nurture [where religious belief, doctrine and observance is part of "nurture"] ~ is unique.

This is why some people sometimes evaluate their own dee ...[text shortened]... ulded by socialization and my surroundings and my desire to live successfully in a communal context.

I can accept; and i can see this as fact.
Thank you for your through response. 🙂