@rajk999 said
You have a very bad impression of humanity. All Jesus did was to remind people what is good and righteous and to tell them that this is what is going to get them into the Kingdom of God as is plainly stated in Matt 5. People have since the time of Adam and Eve, known what is right and wrong and good and evil. It is built into their conscience. Its in Genesis.

Jer 31:33 NKJV - "But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:10 NKJV - "For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Eze 11:21 NKJV - "But [as for those] whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads," says the Lord GOD.

@kingdavid403 said
Why would people do good works without some sort of belief in God or His goodness?

How do you explain morally sound behaviour, moral compasses, good works, and philanthropy on the part of people who have no belief in God and who do not believe there is any such thing as "His goodness"?

@kingdavid403 said
Well, you can prove your faith by your walk (works).
Having faith is a work of faith.
Reading Bible, church, helping others etc... (works).

You count "Reading Bible" as a "good work"?

Does "church" simply mean 'attending church services'?

@fmf said
You count "Reading Bible" as a "good work"?

Does "church" simply mean 'attending church services'?

Yes; and Yes.

@fmf said
How do you explain morally sound behaviour, moral compasses, good works, and philanthropy on the part of people who have no belief in God and who do not believe there is any such thing as "His goodness"?

We are created in God's image. If one has good works towards others, this is because they see the goodness of God in others.
They are loving their neighbor as themselves.
The second commandment of Jesus; which is just like the first; as scriptures tell us.

@kingdavid403 said
People can do good works and know absolutely nothing about Christ,
Are you certain of this? How about God?
Why would people do good works without some sort of belief in God or His goodness?

The issue here actually has to do with the fact that not even Christians are necessarily capable of doing purely good works.

As St. Symeon Metaphrastis writes:

The devil tries to soil and defile every good thing a man would do by intermingling with it his own seeds in the form of self-esteem, presumption, complaint, and other things of this kind, so that what we do is not done for God alone, or with a glad heart.

Anything which is intermingled with these things is not purely good....

It is impossible to do good without God also because all good things that we have are from God, including the good opportunities which have come to us incidentally.

@philokalia said
The issue here actually has to do with the fact that not even Christians are necessarily capable of doing purely good works.

As St. Symeon Metaphrastis writes:

[quote]The devil tries to soil and defile every good thing a man would do by intermingling with it his own seeds in the form of self-esteem, presumption, complaint, and other things of this kind, so th ...[text shortened]... ings that we have are from God, including the good opportunities which have come to us incidentally.

Well said and thank you.
Side note: How was your trip to the lake? Good time?

@philokalia said
The issue here actually has to do with the fact that not even Christians are necessarily capable of doing purely good works.

As St. Symeon Metaphrastis writes:

[quote]The devil tries to soil and defile every good thing a man would do by intermingling with it his own seeds in the form of self-esteem, presumption, complaint, and other things of this kind, so th ...[text shortened]... ings that we have are from God, including the good opportunities which have come to us incidentally.

It is impossible to do good without God also because all good things that we have are from God, including the good opportunities which have come to us incidentally.
My points exactly. 😉

@kingdavid403 said
We are created in God's image. If one has good works towards others, this is because they see the goodness of God in others.
They are loving their neighbor as themselves.
The second commandment of Jesus; which is just like the first; as scriptures tell us.

This is not answering my question.

You said this:

Why would people do good works without some sort of belief in God or His goodness?

So I asked this:

How do you explain morally sound behaviour, moral compasses, good works, and philanthropy on the part of people who have no belief in God and who do not believe there is any such thing as "His goodness"?

You can't just claim they see the goodness of God in others if they do not believe in God.

That thing you claim they "see", projected onto non-believers, cannot be characterized as "belief in God" and "belief in His goodness".

@philokalia said
It is impossible to do good without God also because all good things that we have are from God, including the good opportunities which have come to us incidentally.

This ideologically self-serving piece of circular logic does not mean that atheists who do good have a "belief" in God as KingDavid403 insists.

@kingdavid403 said
We are created in God's image. If one has good works towards others, this is because they see the goodness of God in others.

Just because you believe men's good deeds are caused by your God figure, it does not mean you can superimpose onto non-believers a belief in your God figure. That is preaching-to-the-choir at its most weak-minded.

@fmf said
This is not answering my question.

You said this:

Why would people do good works without some sort of belief in God or His goodness?

So I asked this:

How do you explain morally sound behaviour, moral compasses, good works, and philanthropy on the part of people who have no belief in God and who do not believe there is any such thing as "His goodness"?
...[text shortened]... ojected onto non-believers, cannot be characterized as "belief in God" and "belief in His goodness".

You can't just claim they see the goodness of God in others if they do not believe in God.
Well, I do. 🙂 They see goodness in others and life.

That thing you claim they "see", projected onto non-believers, cannot be characterized as "belief in God" and "belief in His goodness".
Well, I do! 😉

@fmf said
Just because you believe men's good deeds are caused by your God figure, it does not mean you can superimpose onto non-believers a belief in your God figure. That is preaching-to-the-choir at its most weak-minded.

Well, I do.

@kingdavid403 said
You can't just claim they see the goodness of God in others if they do not believe in God.
Well, I do.

You cannot claim that non-believers have "belief" in God for this reason. If you use the word "belief" in this way, it starts to become completely meaningless.

@fmf said
This ideologically self-serving piece of circular logic does not mean that atheists who do good have a "belief" in God as KingDavid403 insists.

You sure?