Dare I say it? The Voice of Reason

@kevcvs57 said
I don’t know nearly enough about the various Christian denominations to debate it.
But I was thinking of the broadly Protestant black churches that produced the backbone and head of the non violent civil rights movement encapsulated in people like MLK.
However in South America it was Roman Catholic clergy that formulated and practiced ‘Liberation Theology’ who often clashed with US foreign policy in the region.

Right. I was thinking more about overcoming internal racism and homophobia.

@suzianne said
Right. I was thinking more about overcoming internal racism and homophobia.

I’m doing my best. I would also like to reduce my cake intake but my devil comes with that Protestant work ethic 😔

@moonbus said
Interesting video blog; Shades of Elmer Gantry. Religion in the Land of the Free has a weird, kooky side to it.

Donald Trump does radiate personal charisma; we've seen plenty of videos of him whipping a crowd into a frenzy. This is no doubt attractive to the charismatics on the religious fringe, who indulge themselves in seeing this as the power of God manifesting itself in him.

But his charisma is the charisma of hate. How often do we find allies because our struggles are the same as those of our neighbor? How more potent is the kinship when we find we actually hate the same things? Woe unto those who wish ill upon another because of our hatred of him, or what he looks like, or some imagined shortcoming. This way eventually lies madness. It also happens to be directly opposite the teachings of Jesus.

@kevcvs57 said
I’m doing my best. I would also like to reduce my cake intake but my devil comes with that Protestant work ethic 😔

But this is the point that Rajk uses as a sledgehammer to beat overenthusiastically on Christians. Jesus had the answer, and too many times, the churches (in their function as institutions of men) do not teach the Tao of Jesus.

@suzianne said
But this is the point that Rajk uses as a sledgehammer to beat overenthusiastically on Christians. Jesus had the answer, and too many times, the churches (in their function as institutions of men) do not teach the Tao of Jesus.

I might have got confused. Are you referring to the internal racism and homophobia of the differing churches or the personal fight against our own racist and homophobic traits?
If it’s the former then good luck with that but I believe your own Episcopalian church is doing quite well, in its western manifestation ( with regard to homophobia ) at least.
If it’s the latter then my original reply stands, and there are many sources of inspiration with Jesus being but one for me.

@kevcvs57 said
I might have got confused. Are you referring to the internal racism and homophobia of the differing churches or the personal fight against our own racist and homophobic traits?
If it’s the former then good luck with that but I believe your own Episcopalian church is doing quite well, in its western manifestation ( with regard to homophobia ) at least.
If it’s the latter th ...[text shortened]... my original reply stands, and there are many sources of inspiration with Jesus being but one for me.

Yes, the former, and yes, I was pointing out that the Episcopalian Church in America has indeed done better than most regarding homophobia, racism AND sexism. Many churches in America act as the evangelical churches, with their hypocritical stances on saying they know what Jesus taught and then pushing the opposite of that.

@suzianne said
Yes, the former, and yes, I was pointing out that the Episcopalian Church in America has indeed done better than most regarding homophobia, racism AND sexism. Many churches in America act as the evangelical churches, with their hypocritical stances on saying they know what Jesus taught and then pushing the opposite of that.

You are sadly mistaken. Turning a blind eye to homosexuality is only 'doing better by the standards of Satan. Churches that have fallen prey to public opinion regarding this matter are of the synagogue of Satan. If you cannot see this then you are similarly deluded.

@rajk999 said
You are sadly mistaken. Turning a blind eye to homosexuality is only 'doing better by the standards of Satan. Churches that have fallen prey to public opinion regarding this matter are of the synagogue of Satan. If you cannot see this then you are similarly deluded.

How kind of you to come illustrate my point.

This could be a mistake jumping into this "puddle" of a debate, but here I go with both feet.

For those who follow the bible, please note a few things. It is said that man (meaning all of humanity) is a sinful being, not necessarily in those words. We are all sinners. That being said, the bible was written by men (meaning males). The bible was not written in English, but was translated. In regard to the creation of the original bible, that happened give or take about 2000 years ago. Education was pretty limited, to mostly the wealthy ruling class. Documentation of history was something not really well done then, because the means to preserve that documentation wasn't really around. This leads one to wonder how much word of mouth there was in the early days of christianity, and how much any of its stories changed from one person to the next. Now we have a bible being used as religious scripture, which is written by sinners, and translated by other sinners. How accurate do you think this is going to stay to whatever original stories?

Now for more fun. The conservative christians (I dated one for 2.5 years) seem to believe that women are supposed to be subservient to males, unless it is a female teaching a male who is new to the ways of christianity. I'm a white male, but I look at this and say "Something seems a little off here".

Here comes a big kicker...christianity has been used as a fear based method of controlling the masses. "What happens when you die? You go to heaven or hell. You'll burn in hell for all eternity if you don't worship christ"
That may actually be the case, but it can also be completely wrong. There is nothing to show what happens to a soul after a body dies. For that matter, do we even have a way of proving a soul exists?

I'm probably going to step on a few toes with this one (but I don't mind). Chriatianity is a rip off of other religion. For those more familiar with the bible than me, please correct me in this next part. The bible describes the shepherd as sleeping out in the fields with his sheep when jesus is being born. Jesus was born in the northern hemisphere of this earth. That would seem to imply the weather is warm. I like camping as much as the next person, but I'm not into sleeping in a field in the winter time, so one could argue that jesus was born in the summer time, not winter. Continuing with this trend, where in biblical verse was there a lighting of a tree? The answer is that it came from pagan religion. Those in the early christian church were seeking out to get more followers, so why not make up a holiday that happens at the same time as some pagan celebration. The lighting of the tree was to help bring longer days back, and bring more light into the world, which just so happens to be very close to the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year. How did old Saint Nick get involved in this mess? History buffs have traced his roots back to Germany. Personally, I'm getting to the point in life that I want to welcome Krampus more than Santa.

Skip forward a couple months to when the Jewish people have Passover. While running for their lives, they didn't have time for their bread to rise, so they ate flatbread instead, which is matzah bread today. The christians say this is the time of the resurrection of christ (does this make him a zombie?) Where did the Easter bunny, Easter eggs, and chicks come from then? Once again, it is a rip off of pagan religion. The pagans had their celebration of new life and rebirth. The eggs, and rabbit are representative of fertility and new life.

With enough pagans starting to slightly alter why they are celebrating some holiday or another, christianity began to spread, and take over, and led to more power for the Christian churches. During medevial times, kings wanted power too, and sometimes, the power hungry pair would work together. Imagine what happens when one person sitting on a throne doesn't want to hear that premarital sex is a sin, and the church then ignores any of his wrongdoing, and in turn, the one on the throne donates wealth to the church. They work together to do what they will, and the church is corrupted by...the sinners in charge... The pagans have become outnumbered and are radicalized. The church uses fearmongering to whip their followers into a frenzy for fear of the pagans doing something crazy, like using witchcraft. What happens next? Ask around at the Salem Witch Trials.

The underlying thing here is fear. Now to bring this to current times, why are churches more associated with conservatives than liberals? It comes back to fear. Small town america that has fewer people tend to grow up in fear of big city ways and changes. Funny how the big cities seem to have more commerce, and a wider variety of people. With more variety comes better understanding, and less fear of others. Fear of the unknown is lessened, and tolerance of others, and their ideals becomes greater, then more people get along. Heck, maybe you can be among others and find a new religion that fits who you think you are better than what you've known all your life.

I say all this as somebody who has grown up in the suburbs, with divorced parents, a few brothers, and have since married a woman, had 16 kids (all the furry, 4 legged kind), and living currently in the country, on the red side of a blue state.

If you made it this far in a single sitting of reading, congrats. Both the red and blue political teams are corrupt.

@zach-thomas said
This could be a mistake jumping into this "puddle" of a debate, but here I go with both feet.

For those who follow the bible, please note a few things. It is said that man (meaning all of humanity) is a sinful being, not necessarily in those words. We are all sinners. That being said, the bible was written by men (meaning males). The bible was not written in English, b ...[text shortened]... his far in a single sitting of reading, congrats. Both the red and blue political teams are corrupt.

Successful religions assimilate lesser ones. I don't think it's a case of 'ripping them off.'

When I was kid, a cousin use to run a star trek 'club' on a Saturday. It was quite popular, but personally I much preferred star wars. Not entirely intentionally, myself and another cousin began to introduce star wars figures and eventually the club became almost exclusively star wars related. In essence we took over the established club without eradicating its popularity.

Christianity is like the Borg. Assimilation is a sound strategy.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Successful religions assimilate lesser ones. I don't think it's a case of 'ripping them off.'

New religions begin, regardless of success or otherwise, to cater for a new market.

Monotheism began in Egypt under akhanaten as he was unhappy with the priests power over society. When akhanaten died the old order was resumed and 'moses' fled to begin a new life which eventually settled in canaan with the resumption of monotheism under the guise of judaism.

Jesus, unhappy with the crucifixion of his cousin john the Baptist, began to preach against the power of the Jewish priests. Became popular, was himself crucified and so Paul began Christianity to cater for people who weren't jewish.

Muhammed then added to this myth by establishing islam to cater for Asian peoples and so on.

Religions are all then subject to splinter groups such as protestants and Henry viii because he wanted to get married again etc.

As this forum demonstrates even those who believe in God and the bible are constantly at odds with each other as they vie to push forward their views and discredit others.

@zach-thomas said
Here comes a big kicker...christianity has been used as a fear based method of controlling the masses. "What happens when you die? You go to heaven or hell. You'll burn in hell for all eternity if you don't worship christ"
That may actually be the case, but it can also be completely wrong. There is nothing to show what happens to a soul after a body dies. For that matter, do we even have a way of proving a soul exists?

I’m not sure where “the big kicker” is in what you’ve written?

@neilarini said
Jesus, unhappy with the crucifixion of his cousin john the Baptist, began to preach against the power of the Jewish priests. Became popular, was himself crucified and so Paul began Christianity to cater for people who weren't jewish.

John the Baptist was beheaded, not crucified. He was executed at the request of Herod’s niece who had danced provocatively for him and his head was brought to her and her mother, now Herod’s wife.

@neilarini said
New religions begin, regardless of success or otherwise, to cater for a new market.

Monotheism began in Egypt under akhanaten as he was unhappy with the priests power over society. When akhanaten died the old order was resumed and 'moses' fled to begin a new life which eventually settled in canaan with the resumption of monotheism under the guise of judaism.

Jesus, un ...[text shortened]... are constantly at odds with each other as they vie to push forward their views and discredit others.

According to the New Testament, John the Baptist was not crucified. He was beheaded.

@divegeester said
John the Baptist was beheaded, not crucified. He was executed at the request of Herod’s niece who had danced provocatively for him and his head was brought to her and her mother, now Herod’s wife.

Great minds think alike at the same time...😊