Cult I was born into finally exposed.

@rajk999 said
In most countries it is illegal to know of criminal activity and not report it. In most cases it is easy to claim ignorance that the guy next door is sexually abusing his daughter or dealing in drugs [for example]. In this case they are openly admitting to hiding this knowledge and their silence condones it and allows it to continue. They are guilty, not just of stupidity bu ...[text shortened]... al offence.

Your pity is misguided. You are part of the problem. Shut up and go educate yourself.

I do not know about the state of the law in other countries, however, as far as I am aware, there is no duty to report crimes to the police in English or Scottish law, with the possible exception of High Treason, the requirement is that one does not hinder them - the relevant offence is "Obstructing the police in the course of their duties.". I think it at least likely that this is the case in the United States as well. People might regard it as their duty to report a crime, but moral imperatives are not automatically legal ones.

@moonbus said
@dj2becker

I'm curious, what caused the scales to fall from your eyes? Did you personally witness or suffer something atrocious, was it accumulation of many small bits of evidence, or something else?

I would say it was the accumulation of small bits of evidence but the final straw was when I connected with ex members and heard their first hand accounts of atrocities that you cannot imagine.

@dj2becker

Thanks for your candor. Obviously this has not been an easy journey. At some point you must have realized that you cannot rescue others still trapped there, you can only escape on your own and sound a warning.

@dj2becker said
Unfortunately that's what fear does to people. Whenever anyone tried to speak up they went on a smear campaign to discredit the person. They lied and made up dirt to discredit anyone who ever made any allegations against them. You obviously have no idea what lengths they would go to to bring down any resistance to the movement.

You obviously have no idea what lengths they would go to to bring down any resistance to the movement.

Of course I do. And in your case, I know because a few years back you described in some considerable detail the psychological abuse you were subjected to and the threats that were made.

A regime of threats, under which people do not even dare to tell people that a family member has been raped for fear of retribution from people closing ranks around the rapist, is a regime of psychological abuse.

Maybe, because you are a self-declared victim, you are unable to recognize this. Maybe this inability is one of the long-term effects of your 25 years under that regime.

I wonder how many more women and girls were raped because previous victims did not raise the alarm... because they lived under a regime of fear.

@dj2becker said
If you want to use the flawed logic that me saying I suffering less than others means I’m defending the cult then so be it.

This is what you said and so this is what I was responding to:

Maybe you wouldn’t think twice about turning your back on family members and life long friends but respect those that choose not to do so for whatever reason. Many people I know want to leave but don’t have the financial means. Many young children would not survive the streets if they left. Remember if they do leave, their family have to disown them. Some people chose not to put their family in that position. Maybe it’s time to get off your high horse.

[1] In the cult, loyalty to family members was fostered.

[2] Life long friendships were made.

[3] People who were loyal to the cult had reasons that were worthy of respect.

[4] The cult provided for people lacking in financial means.

[5] It kept children off the streets.

[6] You seek to smear people who are critical of those who colluded with the cult as being on a moral "high horse" and using "twisted" words and "flawed" logic.

As I said, in making excuses for your own lack of courage and lack of moral clarity, you seem to be willing to inadvertently offer somewhat of a defence of the cult.

@fmf said
This is what you said and so this is what I was responding to:

[b]Maybe you wouldn’t think twice about turning your back on family members and life long friends but respect those that choose not to do so for whatever reason. Many people I know want to leave but don’t have the financial means. Many young children would not survive the streets if they left. Remember if they do l ...[text shortened]... k of moral clarity, you seem to be willing to inadvertently offer somewhat of a defence of the cult.

It’s easy to judge someone if you haven’t walked in their shoes.

@dj2becker said
It’s easy to judge someone if you haven’t walked in their shoes.

If you feel "judged", that's a matter for you. Just as, if you want to be admired for how you conducted yourself, that's also a matter for you, and not me. You raised the issue of your cult as a thread topic and - bearing in mind the past claims you have made about what walking in your shoes was supposedly like - I have simply engaged you by analyzing the stuff you are saying.

@fmf said
If you feel "judged", that's a matter for you. Just as, if you want to be admired for how you conducted yourself, that's also a matter for you, and not me. You raised the issue of your cult as a thread topic and - bearing in mind the past claims you have made about what walking in your shoes was supposedly like - I have simply engaged you by analyzing the stuff you are saying.

And here I thought that "victim blaming" was beneath you. Apparently not.

@fmf said
If you feel "judged", that's a matter for you. Just as, if you want to be admired for how you conducted yourself, that's also a matter for you, and not me. You raised the issue of your cult as a thread topic and - bearing in mind the past claims you have made about what walking in your shoes was supposedly like - I have simply engaged you by analyzing the stuff you are saying.

So according to your analysis victims are always to blame. Insightful to say the least.

@dj2becker said
So according to your analysis victims are always to blame. Insightful to say the least.

Only in your case. Your stupidity [and that of some others in your cult], caused you to be a victim far longer than is reasonable. It makes any normal person wonder if you people really wanted out of that place.

If I remember correctly you spent the last few years telling me that I follow the doctrine of a cult, and that I dont follow Jesus. Had you spent your brain-power trying to sort out your issue you would have stood a better chance of getting out of the mess in which you put yourself.

@deepthought said
I do not know about the state of the law in other countries, however, as far as I am aware, there is no duty to report crimes to the police in English or Scottish law, with the possible exception of High Treason, the requirement is that one does not hinder them - the relevant offence is "Obstructing the police in the course of their duties.". I think it at least likely t ...[text shortened]... t regard it as their duty to report a crime, but moral imperatives are not automatically legal ones.

Things are a little less cut and dry in The Children Act. Safeguarding is everybody's business so you do have a duty to protect children from abuse if you witness evidence. This is family law and not criminal law so you can be non-protective without offending. You would get into a complex legal process in which it would be determined whether you were simply unable to be protective or whether you were complicit in abuse by being non-protective. If it were a legal case in this country it would get into the complex process of deciding whether the cult left people unable to be protective.

@suzianne said
And here I thought that "victim blaming" was beneath you. Apparently not.

There was a long conversation a year or so back where his family's failure to act - after what he claimed had happened to his sister - was discussed, as was how this failure to warn other families ~ women and girls ~ probably resulted in similar atrocities being visited upon them. It was a tough subject, for sure.

My thoughts at that time - about how protecting women and girls from being raped by people in authority inside the cult takes precedence over understandable inclinations to keep things secret and not bring retribution upon oneself... what I said about this at the time might possibly have drawn an accusation of "victim-blaming" from you, and you might have been justified in making it. I'd have disagreed, though.

In this case, I think you are mistaken. I think what I have been saying on this thread is legitimate substance for a discussion about a cult of this kind, especially when it comes to women and girls getting raped and sexually abused and the extent to which people who knew about it [but did nothing] were, for all intents and purposes, complicit.

You may well feel this forum is more designed for you to simply have a go at me for what I think and say about protecting girls from rape than it is for you to actually engage what I think and say about protecting girls from rape - in this case, in the context of a cult. But that's a matter for you. You appear to have chosen the former rather than the latter.

@dj2becker said
So according to your analysis victims are always to blame. Insightful to say the least.

In which post do you think I said "victims are always to blame"? Just address what I say. I write pretty incisively and usually with conciseness. There is no need for you to create paraphrased versions that say something different. Just address what I say.

@fmf said
There was a long conversation a year or so back where his family's failure to act - after what he claimed had happened to his sister - was discussed, as was how this failure to warn other families ~ women and girls ~ probably resulted in similar atrocities being visited upon them. It was a tough subject, for sure.

My thoughts at that time - about how protecting women and girl ...[text shortened]... of a cult. But that's a matter for you. You appear to have chosen the former rather than the latter.

You obviously have no idea of what kind of mental grip cults have on their victims. Instead, you'd rather blame the victims for "not doing more" to help other victims. They can't even help themselves, man, this is what makes cults insidious. But you'd rather sit back and knock him for what he's been through, possibly out of fear of possibly saying anything positive about him. No, you've made your bed, so don't cry about having to lie in it a little longer.

@suzianne said
You obviously have no idea of what kind of mental grip cults have on their victims. Instead, you'd rather blame the victims for "not doing more" to help other victims. They can't even help themselves, man, this is what makes cults insidious. But you'd rather sit back and knock him for what he's been through, possibly out of fear of possibly saying anything positive about him. No, you've made your bed, so don't cry about having to lie in it a little longer.

You obviously haven't read much of what he has written about his cult over the last 2-3 years and what he claims happened to his sister ~ and the reasons he gave for his family not warning others after what he said happened to his sister.

On this thread, he has said that he didn’t think he suffered that much and has insisted many times that he was not the victim of any psychological abuse. You seem to want to big-up his experience in a way he doesn't.

Has he ever expressed any regret over his family not alerting other families in order that women and girls might have avoided being raped or sexually abused?

No. Quite the opposite. Instead, he comes out with mealy-mouthed stuff that defends the supposed virtues of those who were complicit and extolling his family's morality in maintaining secrecy about sexual violence.

So, here he is, a decade down the road, and still rationalizing things and making excuses. It makes him the kind of victim who seems unable to draw any moral lessons from what they went through.

Sometimes, what he says about the cult sounds a bit like he is still in it ~ he even once said "You can put people in the cult but you can't get the cult out of the people" ~ and there clearly is no excuse for that. There is no excuse for a lack of clearsightedness a decade later.

I think I am more interested in the moral issues here than the scattering of the eggshells of victimhood which seems to appeal to your psyche.