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The book of James is about virtues which James teaches lead to Christian perfection. But James has a teaching of Christian perfection which when compared to Paul's epistles and other NT books, is mixed. He had one foot in the old covenant and the other foot in the new covenant.
This represents the shortage of his insight into the new covenant as compared to the apostle Paul. And it reveals the gradual historical emergence of the new covenant church to be distinct from the old covenant Judaism.
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27 Oct 19
God used the apostle James to write one book of the New Testament.
But God used the apostle Paul to contribute some thirteen books to the New Testament.
James is part of the oracles of God. It is the word of God.
But his view of Christian perfection is shortsighted compared to that of Paul.
While we derive wisdom and blessing from the book of James it is not as extensive and deep in quality as that in the thirteen some epistles of Paul.
Luther went too far to hate the book of James. But it is wise to see that in comparison the pious insight of James is a mixture of Old Testament ethics and New Testament living by the indwelling Spirit of Christ.
When the gradual historical shift of the new covenant church from the Mosaic law keeping of the Torah is appreciated, we can see that this should be expected - that the highly esteemed physical brother of Jesus - James had one foot in the old way still as God used him in the early church in Jerusalem.
Paul went further into pioneering the new covenant and had deeper insight into the nature of the difference between the old and the new covenant.
27 Oct 19
@sonship saidIt is believed that the book of James was the first book written in the New Testament. About 10 years after Pentecost, before Paul wrote his first epistle. (James was Jesus' half brother according to the flesh.) Up to that point The Church had only the Old Testament scriptures to rely on for instructions relative to the revelation of Jesus Christ.
The book of James is about virtues which James teaches lead to Christian perfection. But James has a teaching of Christian perfection which when compared to Paul's epistles and other NT books, is mixed. He had one foot in the old covenant and the other foot in the new covenant.
This represents the shortage of his insight into the new covenant as compared t ...[text shortened]... radual historical emergence of the new covenant church to be distinct from the old covenant Judaism.
"Christian perfection" is not about perfection of performance, but about perfection of relationship, which is taught in every book of the Bible, including James.
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27 Oct 19
@SecondSon
Very good. Some response:
The basis for saying James is about Christian perfection can be deduced from 1 through 4.
"Count it all joy, brothers, whenever you fall into various trials.(v1.)
Knowing that the proving of your faith works out endurance. (v.2)
and let endurance have its perfect work that you may be PERFECT and ENTIRE, lacking in nothing." (v.4)
The book seems at some times random. But at core is a litany of virtues James elaborates of to build up his exhortation of being a perfect and entire Christian - Christian perfection.
How do you mean "half brother" of Jesus? To this point I understood that James was a physical son of Mary along with the Lord Jesus the Son of God.
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27 Oct 19
"Christian perfection" is not about perfection of performance, but about perfection of relationship, which is taught in every book of the Bible, including James.
James and those early disciples only had the Old Testament as the Scripture, as you said. James regards keeping of the law of Moses as a part of Christian perfection.
Here he is in tension with the apostle Paul. James refers to the law of Moses a few times - "the royal law" and " the perfect law of freedom" are not the law of life which Paul more emphasized.
That is in Romans - "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" in Romans 8.
In Hebrews also (probably written by Paul) the law written in the hearts is an organic Spirit of life dispensed into man.
James, however, exalted still the law of Moses. To keep it was for him a part of Christian perfection.
27 Oct 19
@sonship saidThat is absolutely true.
Paul went further into pioneering the new covenant and had deeper insight into the nature of the difference between the old and the new covenant.
Galatians 1:11,12
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Clearly, the gospel preached by Paul was given to him by revelation of Jesus Christ, and Paul did not learn it from any man.
This is an amazing fact, which can only lead to the conclusion that Paul was The great apostle, giving The Church the complete and finished Word of God.
Colossians 1:25-27
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (fill full, complete)
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(Embolden & italics mine)
27 Oct 19
@sonship saidNot to be critical of you personally, but I believe you are mistaken."Christian perfection" is not about perfection of performance, but about perfection of relationship, which is taught in every book of the Bible, including James.
James and those early disciples only had the Old Testament as the Scripture, as you said. James regards keeping of the law of Moses as a part of Christian perfection.
Here he is in ten ...[text shortened]... /b], however, exalted still the law of Moses. To keep it was for him a part of Christian perfection.
"Christian perfection" is a misnomer with respect to what God is ultimately concerned with, and with which I believe is the whole thrust of scripture. And that is, the perfection of relationship, which was all along His design since chapter 3 in Genesis.
The last man, Jesus Christ, restored the relationship with God that the first man lost.
And it was through the great apostle Paul that that plan was fully revealed.
James knew it. Peter knew it, as did the rest of the early apostles and prophets.
That's just my take on the overview of the body of scripture. I believe I'm correct.
What may or may not be complete in James is certainly completed by Paul, which makes James no less The Word of God than Paul's epistles, but it's all about the perfection of relationship as opposed to the perfection of performance.
Not to say though that the standard is lowered with regards to conduct.
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27 Oct 19
"Christian perfection" is a misnomer with respect to what God is ultimately concerned with, and with which I believe is the whole thrust of scripture. And that is, the perfection of relationship, which was all along His design since chapter 3 in Genesis.
The last man, Jesus Christ, restored the relationship with God that the first man lost.
And it was through the great apostle Paul that that plan was fully revealed.
James knew it. Peter knew it, as did the rest of the early apostles and prophets.
That's just my take on the overview of the body of scripture. I believe I'm correct.
What may or may not be complete in James is certainly completed by Paul, which makes James no less The Word of God than Paul's epistles, but it's all about the perfection of relationship as opposed to the perfection of performance.
Not to say though that the standard is lowered with regards to conduct.
Beautiful! Thoughtful. My response will follow in time.
27 Oct 19
@sonship saidJesus and James had the same mother, but not the same father. Biologically.
@SecondSon
Very good. Some response:
The basis for saying James is about Christian perfection can be deduced from 1 through 4.
[quote] "Count it all joy, brothers, whenever you fall into various trials.(v1.)
Knowing that the proving of your faith works out endurance. (v.2)
and let endurance have its perfect work that you may be PERFECT and ...[text shortened]... I understood that [b]James was a physical son of Mary along with the Lord Jesus the Son of God.
Jesus had five younger half brothers and at least two sisters which were the children of the union of Joseph and Mary.
Perhaps I should back peddle some. "Christian perfection" is certainly an ideal achievement to pursuit, and I agree that James is describing how that looks relative to Christian conduct, but it is quite unachievable unless one is born again and the relationship with God is restored.
A work that only Jesus can perform. I'm sure you know what I mean.
27 Oct 19
3 edits
@secondson saidIt is interesting that Jesus never once used the term "relationship" so your expression 'perfection in relationship' is an unbiblical church doctrine designed to steer church goers into the wrong direction and away from the true teachings of Christ.
Not to be critical of you personally, but I believe you are mistaken.
"Christian perfection" is a misnomer with respect to what God is ultimately concerned with, and with which I believe is the whole thrust of scripture. And that is, the perfection of relationship, which was all along His design since chapter 3 in Genesis.
The last man, Jesus Christ, restored the rela ...[text shortened]... erfection of performance.
Not to say though that the standard is lowered with regards to conduct.
And church people love it. They love to hear your doctrine of do nothing, help nobody, just pray, attend church, give the pastor money, call Jesus name, tell Jesus you love Him .... its all a sham and a scheme to fill the pastors pockets. The pastors love it and that is why the preach those lies. But its the road to damnation.
Here is what Jesus said about being perfect:
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (Matthew 19:21 KJV)
You got that, church man? Jesus said perfection comes from giving away what you have to the poor. Perfection is not about your foolishness about relationship. The righteous are also defined. These are those who do good works as Jesus said in Matt 25. Perfection comes from continuing to give until all worldly possessions have been sold and given away. Perfection does not come from mouth worship and boasting of any relationship with Christ, which does not exist in the bible.
The exact doctrine is preached by Paul and the Apostles.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV)
Scripture is given so that man can move away from sin and evil, toward righteousness and then to perfection aka good works. Good works is the road to perfection.
Your doctrine about perfection in relationship is foolishness.
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27 Oct 19
4 edits
"Christian perfection" is a misnomer with respect to what God is ultimately concerned with, and with which I believe is the whole thrust of scripture. And that is, the perfection of relationship, which was all along His design since chapter 3 in Genesis.
I think that the first sentence may be what I am trying to make a case for.
To James the view of Christian being made perfect and complete falls short of something found in Paul's revelation.
If we only had James we would still think related to the "the twelve tribes in the dispersion" ( 1:1) . That is the relationship of the Jews according to the allotment of the Torah, the bases of the twelve tribe Israelite nation with Yahweh.
The church to whom Paul addresses most of his letters, is the body of Christ as a habitation of God in spirit.
"Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone;
In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;
In whom you also [in Ephesus as the local church there] are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:20-22)
The universal church - the relationship of a living BUILDING or living TEMPLE being filled with God Himself - "a dwelling place (or habitation) of God in spirit." .
It is good of James and understandable to be concerned for the preservation of "the twelve tribes in the dispersion".
It is deeper to see the new testament church as the "one new man" of Jews and Gentiles as fellow citizens of kingdom and a house universal as God's dwelling place.
Isn't the relationship in Paul's ministry deeper?
Now, the second sentence suggests to me that God's full salvation was only to restore man to the garden of Eden like paradise.
Do you really think the full salvation of Christ stops at restoring the Edenic paradise lost in Genesis ? Or do you like me, regard Christ's salvation as THAT plus something much more?
You know, Adam though made very good and innocent did not have God living in him.
Do you think that Adam had eaten of 'the tree of life" which appeared as God's ultimate intention there - to get divine life dispensed INTO man?
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27 Oct 19
.
The last man, Jesus Christ, restored the relationship with God that the first man lost.
He did more than this.
Adam was made very good, very innocent, yet neutral between the life of God Himself, signified by "the tree of life" and Satan as the element that could also get into man - signified by "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
To be restored to Adam's state, I believe, would be to merely restore man back to this very good and innocent relationship with God which however was short of God living within man - the fruit of the tree of life.
The very good vessel of man was innocent yet short of having God living within him in a mingled and united way.
Christ's salvation brings man not just back to innocence as a relationship with God. Christ's salvation brings man ON to being a corporate "dwelling place of God in spirit" - the habitation of God.
And it was through the great apostle Paul that that plan was fully revealed.
James knew it. Peter knew it, as did the rest of the early apostles and prophets.
That's just my take on the overview of the body of scripture. I believe I'm correct.
What may or may not be complete in James is certainly completed by Paul, which makes James no less The Word of God than Paul's epistles, but it's all about the perfection of relationship as opposed to the perfection of performance.
Not to say though that the standard is lowered with regards to conduct.
I fully agree that Peter and James saw God's goal. But James is obscure on it while Paul is as a laser beam in, say, Ephesians, on it.
In fairness to the apostles, the letters NOT included in the canon, we do not have. But the 13 of Paul that we have compared to the 1 of James that are in the canon of God's word, show Paul's "relationship" to be God manifest in the flesh - God living in His dwelling place of the church.
Is New Testament salvation to you only "back to the garden of Eden" or that AND SOME?
27 Oct 19
@rajk999 saidIf it makes you happy not to have a relationship with God, then by all means work your way home.
It is interesting that Jesus never once used the term "relationship" so your expression 'perfection in relationship' is an unbiblical church doctrine designed to steer church goers into the wrong direction and away from the true teachings of Christ.
And church people love it. They love to hear your doctrine of do nothing, help nobody, just pray, attend church, give the p ...[text shortened]... d works is the road to perfection.
Your doctrine about perfection in relationship is foolishness.
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27 Oct 19
@SecondSon
The sequence of exchanges may get kind of random. But I undertand perfectly what you mean here:
Perhaps I should back peddle some. "Christian perfection" is certainly an ideal achievement to pursuit, and I agree that James is describing how that looks relative to Christian conduct, but it is quite unachievable unless one is born again and the relationship with God is restored.
A work that only Jesus can perform. I'm sure you know what I mean.