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09 Jan 21
@sonship saidAs I have known you a follower of a false and debunked prophet.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeYou have known me as an atheist for several years on this site. Why are you pretending otherwise?!
I have also known you as a wolf in sheep's clothing for years.
Appealing to the Bible as if you hold it to be authoritative LIKE a believer would.
You atheists are suppose to have a LACK of this and that about God.
You posture yourself like you do NOT lack a regard for the Bible as the word of God.
Wake up and smell the coffee. As much as you would like it to be so, not all atheists lack knowledge of your religion.
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As I have known you a follower of a false and debunked prophet.
Right on time Ghost. When you fail, quick, change the subject!
Try your luck on the cult following thing. Less thinking involved. More hand waving and pointing off to what so-and-so said. Good old GOSSIP.
You're right on time.
Wake up and smell the coffee. As much as you would like it to be so, not all atheists lack knowledge of your religion.
The list you wrote or copied was no exemplary model of a knowledgeable atheist about the Bible. It is embarrassingly superficial.
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09 Jan 21
• Jesus Says A Call Is Revocable, But Paul Says It Is Irrevocable.
Since you are SO knowledgeable about my faith, PLEASE specify from where you derive this "contradiction".
Don't be too lazy. Spell it out for this poor little naïve Christian.
WHERE? Chapter WHICH in the New Testament? Verses WHICH ??
@sonship saidDo you not know that Jesus said in the parable of the wheat and the tares that the tares [evil ones] will be gathered first?
Next regurgitated "contradiction" between Christ and Paul:
• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The Opposite.
Where did Jesus teach anything about the Rapture of the evil ones first or at all ?
Do you mean rapture of those redeemed, forgiven, justified through His salvation?
And if you cannot locate such a teaching a person with some integrity would retract the false accusation.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matthew 13:30 KJV)
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09 Jan 21
@sonship saidI didn't write it. You copied it. (I refer you to the OP)
The list you wrote or copied was no exemplary model of a knowledgeable atheist about the Bible. It is embarrassingly superficial.
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09 Jan 21
@sonship said"'The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable' (Rom 11:29). The birthright of Esau was revoked, as was the calling of the House of Eli. If 'many are called, but few are chosen' (Matt 22:14), then the calling is revocable."• Jesus Says A Call Is Revocable, But Paul Says It Is Irrevocable.
Since you are SO knowledgeable about my faith, PLEASE specify from where you derive this "contradiction".
Don't be too lazy. Spell it out for this poor little naïve Christian.
WHERE? Chapter WHICH in the New Testament? Verses WHICH ??
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09 Jan 21
2 edits
• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The Opposite.
Do you not know that Jesus said in the parable of the wheat and the tares that the tares [evil ones] will be gathered first?
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matthew 13:30 KJV)
I never considered this gathering a rapture.
The rapture is a word meaning an ecstasy, and ecstatic joy, ie. being caught up in an exuberant joyous happiness. The word "rapture" is not in the Bible per se as far as I know.
Do you think for someone to be gathered in any way by Christ's angels to be thrown into a place of fiery punishment will be an ecstatically joyous experience ?
I don't. So I would not include this gathering as rapture.
09 Jan 21
@sonship saidYou are missing the point. I did not use the word rapture.
@Rajk999• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The Opposite.
[quote]
Do you not know that Jesus said in the parable of the wheat and the tares that the tares [evil ones] will be gathered first?
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, ...[text shortened]... e an ecstatically joyous experience ?
I don't. So I would not include this gathering as rapture.
Jesus said that when he returns he will gather the wicked FIRST and burn them. Then he will gather the righteous into his barns.
Paul said that when Jesus returns he will gather the righteous and leave the wicked behind.
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"'The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable' (Rom 11:29). The birthright of Esau was revoked, as was the calling of the House of Eli. If 'many are called, but few are chosen' (Matt 22:14), then the calling is revocable."
Paul spends all of chapter 11 (36 verses) of Romans to argue that God has NOT revoked Israel forever from being the theocratic nation as promised to the patriarchal "fathers". Though Paul says much about their DISCIPLINE by God.
Does this agree or disagree with Christ prophesying that though Israel reject their Messiah at that time of His crucifixion, they would none the less recognize and welcome Him in the future?
It agrees. Jesus said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! ... Behold your house is left to you. And I say to you, You shall by no means see Me until the time comes when you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." (See Luke 13:34,35)
So does Christ's promise of ultimate restoral of Israel (here and elsewhere in the synoptics) sound the same as Paul's whole discussion in Romans 11 or opposite?
Does Luke 13:34,35 teach the same as Romans 11 or contradict?
Don't say "I am an atheist and don't have to answer." If you're smart enough to hunt down this sample of alleged Christ verses Paul you're capable of telling me if Luke 13:34,35 agrees with or disagrees with Romans 11.
As to the gift of eternal life Jesus says NO ONE is able to pluck them out of His and His Father's hand.
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (John 10:27-30)
Is this Jesus teaching the gift of eternal life is REVOCABLE or IRREVOCABLE?
It is Jesus teaching His gift of eternal life is IRREVOCABLE.
His doesn't mean He cannot discipline someone called or chosen.
The irrevocable nature of His gift does not TIE HIS HANDS that He cannot administer discipline over His sons.
Had that been the case the Bible would have been many times reduced in size. For it is markedly about how God overcomes all kinds of obstacles to His gifts and calling and selection because of man's failures. He is able to fulfill His will regardless.
I'll comment on Esau latter.
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10 Jan 21
@rajk999 saidYou in YOUR post included this:
You are missing the point. I did not use the word rapture.
Jesus said that when he returns he will gather the wicked FIRST and burn them. Then he will gather the righteous into his barns.
Paul said that when Jesus returns he will gather the righteous and leave the wicked behind.
• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The Opposite.
If you were not discussing the word rapture then you should have not INCLUDED this sentence.
@sonship saidYour head is screwed on wrong pal. Those are not my words. When you quote and reply, what the previous writer said comes up. Go figure it out.
You in YOUR post included this:
• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The Opposite.
If you were not discussing the word rapture then you should have not INCLUDED this sentence.
In any case Jesus said the opposite of Paul and you are not addressing the issue.
10 Jan 21
@sonship saidJudas Iscariot's promise of eternal life was revoked. The bible is clear, ONLY THE SHEEP get eternal life or are guaranteed eternal life. The sheep of Christ are the ones who keep the commandments.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke"'The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable' (Rom 11:29). The birthright of Esau was revoked, as was the calling of the House of Eli. If 'many are called, but few are chosen' (Matt 22:14), then the calling is revocable."
Paul spends all of chapter 11 (36 verses) of Romans to argue that God has NOT revoked Israel forever from ...[text shortened]... ause of man's failures. He is able to fulfill His will regardless.
I'll comment on Esau latter.
You doctrine that all those who profess faith regardless of what they do, are guaranteed eternal life is utter garbage and is the doctrine of Satan, whose aim is to encourage disobedience and draw people to damnation