Certainly not a simple doctrine.

Originally posted by divegeester
No need to be so touchy, I'm just asking why you are so twisted up about this topic.

This reply is remarkable to me. This thread is titled 'Certainly not a simple doctrine'. The issue of Jesus has been discussed and debated for 2,000 years.....and you're question to me is why am I so twisted up about this topic??

I don't even know how to answer that....seems like a ridiculous question.

Someone's personal faith should not be under attack, simply for asking questions. If YOU are certain about this 'topic', well....good for you. But, for a person of ANY faith who maybe wants to learn more about the Jesus/God issue, who is trying to learn.....you have no right to ask such a question. As I said earlier, what if I were Jewish and in the middle of a 'search' for the truth. Besides, it is always difficult to discuss/debate religion and doctrine......people tend to get 'touchy'.

Originally posted by chaney3
This reply is remarkable to me. This thread is titled 'Certainly not a simple doctrine'. The issue of Jesus has been discussed and debated for 2,000 years.....and you're question to me is why am I so twisted up about this topic??

I don't even know how to answer that....seems like a ridiculous question.

Someone's personal faith should not be under att ...[text shortened]... it is always difficult to discuss/debate religion and doctrine......people tend to get 'touchy'.

Actually, it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Actually, it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind.

I have not made up my mind. I simply asked why Judas, Thomas, and Peter had such issues and questions regarding Jesus, and they KNEW Him. If you read my posts, I ask questions.....and am curious if anybody has valid theories about these things. Of course, I would only expect more theories in return.....unless you are one of the arrogant people who claim to KNOW all the answers???

How about if you and diveegster just focus on the questions at hand, and not worry about my beliefs??? Why don't you simply regard this as someone looking for various opinions. P.S. I have read some of your posts Suzianne, and you seem to just get angry at anybody who questions Jesus, and don't really offer any hard truths. Can you tell me why Peter denied Jesus....or why Judas betrayed Jesus....or WHY Thomas doubted Jesus....when ALL 3 of them were in His presence every day for years???? No, you CANNOT. Instead, you will just try to force your beliefs, and criticize me for even asking. Who made YOU the authority anyway???

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm just quoting the bible Robbie. If you have issue with the bible then please feel free to provide your evidence.

I already have provided the Geek text and a literal translation as yet you have failed to tell us, despite being asked three times how you get from the Greek text to the term Godhead. if you don't know just say that you don't know.

Originally posted by chaney3

I have not made up my mind. I simply asked why Judas, Thomas, and Peter had such issues and questions regarding Jesus, and they KNEW Him. If you read my posts, I ask questions.....and am curious if anybody has valid theories about these things. Of course, I would only expect more theories in return.....unless you are one of the arrogant people who claim to KNOW all the answers???

Cheney3, I am curious about the question you speak of.
Would you pose it in detail (one question?) for me or paste it in your reply?

What are the "such issues" you speak of?

Maybe I can offer a comment.

Originally posted by chaney3
I have not made up my mind. I simply asked why Judas, Thomas, and Peter had such issues and questions regarding Jesus, and they KNEW Him. If you read my posts, I ask questions.....and am curious if anybody has valid theories about these things. Of course, I would only expect more theories in return.....unless you are one of the arrogant people who claim t ...[text shortened]... y to force your beliefs, and criticize me for even asking. Who made YOU the authority anyway???

Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

Wait, I have a fantastic idea. Why don't you just ask God for wisdom? Just a little faith might be a good idea, too.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I already have provided the Geek text and a literal translation as yet you have failed to tell us, despite being asked three times how you get from the Greek text to the term Godhead. if you don't know just say that you don't know.

"... the Geek text..."
A Freudian slip?

Yes, I know, we get it that you are part of a church that prides itself on its "translation" (read: dogma). That doesn't mean you have any clue what you are talking about. You've been taken to school so many times in this forum already that I've lost count.

Now, besides worshiping the Bible as a god (one whom you think it's okay to misrepresent), what else do you intend to bring to the table? Because I'm not impressed so far.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

why don't you address the substance?

Originally posted by chaney3
We are debating an issue that is 2,000 years old, and we were not there. The fact that the Trinity, and the term Godhead are confusing to some, myself included, it not something to be ashamed of. Consider this: Judas betrayed Jesus......Thomas doubted Jesus....and Peter denied Jesus. These guys were THERE with Jesus....ate meals with Him, had first hand ...[text shortened]... than the very people who had the very same doubts right smack in the presence of Jesus Himself.

Are these the issues ?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why don't you address the substance?

Why don't you?

I'm not ready to debate someone who is ranting and raving.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

That's exactly the reply I thought I would get!! What messenger? You have no message. I will ask again, to see if you actually have something valid to add. Today's Christians believe that Jesus is God. I am asking how can they be so sure?? That's it.

Peter, Thomas and Judas spent every day WITH Jesus. Certainly if they thought He was God Himself...they would NOT have denied, doubted and betrayed. Can you explain this?? Or will you just send another shallow attack my way Suzianne??

Please say something relevant.....there may be someone who really wants to know God, and despite the fact that this is a chess site......maybe someone will read something interesting and make an effort to keep searching. And....once again, as the title states......this is 'Certainly NOT a simple doctrine'.

Originally posted by Suzianne
[b]"... the Geek text..."
A Freudian slip?

Yes, I know, we get it that you are part of a church that prides itself on its "translation" (read: dogma). That doesn't mean you have any clue what you are talking about. You've been taken to school so many times in this forum already that I've lost count.

Now, besides worshiping the Bible as a god (o ...[text shortened]... misrepresent), what else do you intend to bring to the table? Because I'm not impressed so far.[/b]

yawn, look if you are unable, unwilling or incapable of addressing the substance why don't you go to general and talk about making fairy cakes there, this here is spirituality for people that are interested in spiritual things and in truth. Nothing you ever say has any spiritual content and is very rarely if ever true. Why don't you simply address the substance of peoples texts? Here is your opportunity to teach us something for God knows we've learned nothing with the exception that you appear to be incapable of rational thought. So why don't you tell us how you get from the Greek text to the term Godhead? If you will not or cannot then I personally would appreciate it if you left it to those people that know what they are talking about and are interested in discussing spiritual matters without your empty statements peppering the forum like litter in a place of natural beauty.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Why don't you?

I'm not ready to debate someone who is ranting and raving.

more empty nothingness - general forum that a way --------->

Originally posted by chaney3
That's exactly the reply I thought I would get!! What messenger? You have no message. I will ask again, to see if you actually have something valid to add. Today's Christians believe that Jesus is God. I am asking how can they be so sure?? That's it.

Peter, Thomas and Judas spent every day WITH Jesus. Certainly if they thought He was God Himself. ...[text shortened]... arching. And....once again, as the title states......this is 'Certainly NOT a simple doctrine'.

I've been waiting for you to 'calm down' just a bit. Seems my wait isn't over quite yet.

Reason cannot get through to someone while they are yelling. Maybe that's why few are eager to engage you. All they get for their trouble is attacks.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more empty nothingness - general forum that a way --------->

You know, given your hatred of Christians and your "hyper-willingness" to lead them astray, both against Christ's own commandments, perhaps this man really shouldn't be listening to you anyways.