29 May 15
1 edit
Originally posted by chaney3I've asked a few times across a few threads what your interest stems from in terms of your background and current you belief system I.e. Chrisitanity, JW, atheist etc? Of course you can continue to avoid the question if you like, but your increasingly shrill posting style on the subject is not indicative of someone with a mere passing interest.
This reply is remarkable to me. This thread is titled 'Certainly not a simple doctrine'. The issue of Jesus has been discussed and debated for 2,000 years.....and you're question to me is why am I so twisted up about this topic??
I don't even know how to answer that....seems like a ridiculous question.
Someone's personal faith should not be under att ...[text shortened]... it is always difficult to discuss/debate religion and doctrine......people tend to get 'touchy'.
29 May 15
1 edit
Originally posted by chaney3I've addressed your questions several times utilising a fairly comprehensive range of OT and NT scripture and Gospel based rational, all of which you have ignored and instead keep posting the same basic premise that you are unconvinced. Being unconvinced may be your position, but repeatedly stating that you are inconvinced by what other posters have taken time to reply to you without engaging on what was replied becomes old quite quickly.
I have not made up my mind. I simply asked why Judas, Thomas, and Peter had such issues and questions regarding Jesus, and they KNEW Him. If you read my posts, I ask questions.....and am curious if anybody has valid theories about these things. Of course, I would only expect more theories in return.....unless you are one of the arrogant people who claim t ...[text shortened]... y to force your beliefs, and criticize me for even asking. Who made YOU the authority anyway???
29 May 15
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have already said that I don't know. Try slowing down, wipe the saliva from your chin and read people's replies.
I already have provided the Geek text and a literal translation as yet you have failed to tell us, despite being asked three times how you get from the Greek text to the term Godhead. if you don't know just say that you don't know.
Btw, I am happy to discuss this but I think twhitehead has it nailed when he asked what does "Godhead" mean to you or me and does that align with the original Greek. Furthermore I would add, does it them follow that that outcome supports your contention about the deity of Christ. I'm pretty confident it won't, but happy to look at it with you if you still want to.
29 May 15
1 edit
Originally posted by chaney3I'm not even sure what you are trying to get at with this question about Judas, Peter and Thomas. Human beings have doubts, fears and they change their minds. Some, like Judas have bitter regrets. Others like Peter repent and are restored.
I have not made up my mind. I simply asked why Judas, Thomas, and Peter had such issues and questions regarding Jesus, and they KNEW Him. If you read my posts, I ask questions.....and am curious if anybody has valid theories about these things. Of course, I would only expect more theories in return.....unless you are one of the arrogant people who claim t ...[text shortened]... y to force your beliefs, and criticize me for even asking. Who made YOU the authority anyway???
If you want to explore this avenue of thinking I'm happy to go there with you chaney3. Why don't we talk about David next and how he was the human lineage of Jesus, part of the root of Jesse and considered by God to be "a man after God's heart". And yet he committed adultery and sent the husband to his death in the front line.
29 May 15
Originally posted by divegeesterYou are without excuse. 😏
Side thought...
If I find what I accept as sufficient reason to believe that Jesus was not the invisible God made visible in a veil of flesh that was torn to provide access to the holiest of holies...does that excuse me from abandoning my faith?
29 May 15
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsOriginally posted by RJHinds in reply to chaney3
I get the impression that you learned about God and Jesus from others and never really studied the Holy Bible yourself. It can be helpful to learn the ideas of others, but it is what you believe that is really important. So I would suggest that before you get indoctrinated by other people's ideas that you actually read and study the entire Holy Bible yourself to see what it says to you.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
"I get the impression that you learned about God and Jesus from others and never really studied the Holy Bible yourself. It can be helpful to learn the ideas of others, but it is what you believe that is really important. So I would suggest that before you get indoctrinated by other people's ideas that you actually read and study the entire Holy Bible yourself to see what it says to you."
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
________________________________________________
"11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors-teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:11-16)
"15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17 KJV) Note: These three words are among the last Christ spoke to His disciples; and establish His number one priority for all pastor-teachers.
Sheep are unable to find water or food by themselves; this graphic metaphor emphasizes the necessity for all believers in Christ to expose themselves systematically to the accurate teaching of the Word of God in order to grow in grace and in doing so glorify God..
29 May 15
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999"15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17 KJV) Note: These three words are among the last Christ spoke to His disciples; and establish His number one priority for all pastor-teachers.
My teacher is Jesus Christ who said half a dozen times that he is subject to his Father and NOT EQUAL TO GOD.
Who is your pastor?
Sheep are unable to find water or food by themselves; this graphic metaphor emphasizes the necessity for all believers in Christ to expose themselves systematically to the accurate teaching of the Word of God in order to grow in grace and in doing so glorify God.."
____________________________________
Jesus Christ taught men and women during the three year ministry of His First Advent; subsequently He has delegated this responsibility as "His number one priority for all pastor-teachers." because "Sheep are unable to find water or food by themselves."
Doctrine of the Trinity is unique to Christianity. Seeming paradox? Not quite. Three gods in one? No. God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit exist [and have always existed] as three separate and distinct persons who are coequal and coeternal, all possessing the same essential nature and divine attributes. "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) God is one in essence but in three persons.
Since my twenties I've been taught the promises, doctrinal rationales and application principles revealed in the sixty six books in the Word of God by six different pastor-teachers all of whom taught faithfully from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek [verse by verse, line upon line, precept upon precept] four to six times each week. One at present is Bill Wenstrom. Whom may I ask is your pastor-teacher?
29 May 15
Originally posted by divegeesterOkay divegeester. I don't know what to call myself at this time. I believe in God. I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I believe that the Holy Spirit is real. So...I do believe in all 3, but cannot grasp the concept that all 3 are the same. Hence, my dilemma with the Trinity. My frustration comes from the fact that Christians believe that Jesus is God. And, if that is true, I want to understand. Believe it or not, this forum is helping me. I am NOT looking to debate someone else's belief, or try to persuade anyone from their beliefs.
I've asked a few times across a few threads what your interest stems from in terms of your background and current you belief system I.e. Chrisitanity, JW, atheist etc? Of course you can continue to avoid the question if you like, but your increasingly shrill posting style on the subject is not indicative of someone with a mere passing interest.
This answer to you should be helpful??
29 May 15
Originally posted by chaney3Interesting not helpful. And I don't mean "interesting" as when someone catches Lemon Lime out in one of embellishments, I mean interesting on a personal level.
Okay divegeester. I don't know what to call myself at this time. I believe in God. I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I believe that the Holy Spirit is real. So...I do believe in all 3, but cannot grasp the concept that all 3 are the same. Hence, my dilemma with the Trinity. My frustration comes from the fact that Christians believe that Jesus is ...[text shortened]... elief, or try to persuade anyone from their beliefs.
This answer to you should be helpful??
You say you believe in God and I presume this is the Biblical OT God, but you frequently say "Christians keep saying...", do you not classify yourself as a Christian?
29 May 15
Originally posted by divegeesterYes, the God I believe in is the Biblical OT God. As far as the title "Christian", I am not even sure anymore what would 'classify' a person as Christian. Do you need to believe that Jesus is God to be a Christian??
Interesting not helpful. And I don't mean "interesting" as when someone catches Lemon Lime out in one of embellishments, I mean interesting on a personal level.
You say you believe in God and I presume this is the Biblical OT God, but you frequently say "Christians keep saying...", do you not classify yourself as a Christian?
Hey....keep in mind....this is NOT easy for me. I feel completely lost sometimes with my faith.....and I'm not looking for fights with anyone. I can understand that my posts have a certain level of confusion and frustration attached to them.....but, that's where I am right now.
29 May 15
Originally posted by chaney3Appreciate the honestly and openness. I think you may be positively surprised that despite the generally combative landscape of this forum, genuine enquiry is met with genuine response.
Yes, the God I believe in is the Biblical OT God. As far as the title "Christian", I am not even sure anymore what would 'classify' a person as Christian. Do you need to believe that Jesus is God to be a Christian??
Hey....keep in mind....this is NOT easy for me. I feel completely lost sometimes with my faith.....and I'm not looking for fights with a ...[text shortened]... ertain level of confusion and frustration attached to them.....but, that's where I am right now.
Most of us are here to argue about stuff with other people who like to argue about stuff, but don't let that put you off.