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11 Mar 21
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidSo if you have an infinity of times the cycle occurs - expansion / collapse,
There are times (for want of a better word) in the universe when life is not sustainable and therefore doesn't exist, only emerging again (and evolving) when the 8 ingredients for life have returned.
you also have an infinity of times the cycle has INCLUDED life.
And you also have an infinity of times the cycle has NOT included life.
Isn't that the case?
11 Mar 21
@sonship saidYes.
So if you have an infinity of times the cycle occurs - expansion / collapse,
you also have an infinity of times the cycle has INCLUDED life.
And you also have an infinity of times the cycle has NOT included life.
Isn't that the case?
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11 Mar 21
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Where is 'your' evidence that there wasn't a time before God? (A human written book will not suffice). To ask for evidence of such thing is a nonsense, bearing in mind our mutual finite nature.
While I think about the mathematical problem of infinity minus infinite equals infinity I'll think of what is said about the above.
Time before God.
How do I know there wasn't time before God?
I take on faith and a reasonable explanation also that all things were created by God.
"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:3)
God is the uncreated Source of everything.
"Because in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities;
all things have been created through Him and unto Him.
And He is before all things, and all things cohere in Him." (Col. 1:16,17)
God is the uncreated eternal Source of all things which exist.
"Because out from Him and through Him and to Him are all things." (Rom. 11:36a)
All things which exist are out from Him and through Him. And to Him all that exists is.
" . . . for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were, and were created." (Rev. 4:11b)
I believe all things exist because of the will of the uncreated and almighty Source of all.
" . . . God . . . who gives life to the dead and calls the things not being as being." (Rom. 4:17)
God is the ground of being.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Gen. 1:1)
Time, Space, Matter, Energy and the laws by which Time, Space, Matter, and Energy operate had their initiation and beginning out of the uncreated God.
This is what I have faith in.
I was not and then I existed.
I do not count myself to have had an infinite past existence.
11 Mar 21
@sonship saidOr perhaps:
In the mean time while we take maybe a dinner break -
(Not for you who automatically will not watch a Youtube I post)
Scientist DENIES How Science Really Started
But what are the historical facts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjTsCAvvTzM&ab_channel=RedPenLogic
11 Mar 21
@sonship saidWhen you say you take it on faith, isn't that just code for, 'no, I don't have any more evidence than the atheist?'
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Where is 'your' evidence that there wasn't a time before God? (A human written book will not suffice). To ask for evidence of such thing is a nonsense, bearing in mind our mutual finite nature.
While I think about the mathematical problem of infinity minus infinite equals infinity I'll think of what is said about the above.
Time b ...[text shortened]... I was not and then I existed.
I do not count myself to have had an infinite past existence.
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11 Mar 21
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When you say you take it on faith, isn't that just code for, 'no, I don't have any more evidence than the atheist?'
I think the evidence accumulates more for justifying God's existence.
Evidence is not persuasion.
Evidence gives you a feeling that you are on the right track to truth.
I think the evidence for an uncreated Creator of infinite wisdom and knowledge and power is stronger for me then evidence that there is no God.
One reason:
I think LIFE is on something of a higher order of being then non-life.
A rock is fascinating and cool.
I think an amoeba though is more unique and on a higher scale of uniqueness.
The ONE universe that we definitely know about produced this higher order of being only because of exquisitely calibrated and fine tuned properties without which life as we know it would not have been possible.
You propose an infinite number of universes (or an infinitely occurring re-cycled one). We know of only ONE that has this hugely unique characteristic of fine-tuning. The available evidence is more persuasive to me that purpose is responsible for this finely calibrated life permitting constants in the "big bang".
The evidence that an infinite number of universes HAD this fine calibration and an infinite number did not is less available. So I think I am on the right track to believe in a purposeful, powerful, Mind explains better the available evidence.
What would be your evidence that an infinite number of previous instances of the universe preceded this one?
What would be your theory why if they did an infinite number of them were calibrated exquisitely for the formation of living beings and an infinite number of them were not?
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11 Mar 21
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
I enjoyed the video.
I saw nowhere in it though, anything making it obvious that there is no Creator.
Like, the most important ingredient to the formation of the first automobile was not pistons, cylinders, screws, wires, heat, gas, springs, etc. but Henry Ford.
12 Mar 21
@sonship saidThe are dozens!
Refer me to the thread in which you an atheist proved I followed a "false teaching".
Most recently:
1) Caesar Salad brilliantly interjected your ramblings about “Jesus flowing” and corrected you saying “no, Jesus abides”.
2) Ghost of a Duke highlighting that telling people to “call to Jesus 10 times” is paganism, which it is.
Then there are the dozens of times FMF has had your moral underpants at your ankles over your various off-piste beliefs about eternal suffering and the nature of God.
This is without Rajk999 rapping your knuckles over various teachings. I won’t even mention my own issues with you.
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12 Mar 21
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@divegeester
You have too much clergy / laity system on your mind.
You have too much official organizational position holding on your mind.
Suziane's comment on this a week or so back was good.
12 Mar 21
@sonship saidIrrelevant.
@divegeester
You have too much clergy / laity system on your mind.
You have too much official organizational position holding on your mind.
Suziane's comment on this a week or so back was good.
You are not a leader or a teacher in your own church with the people who know you, you have no mandate to pontificate in this forum, regurgitating stuff your have read elsewhere.
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12 Mar 21
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The are dozens!
In eight to ten years you haven't pointed out one.
Most recently:
1) Caesar Salad brilliantly interjected your ramblings about “Jesus flowing” and corrected you saying “no, Jesus abides”.
You failed to prove that the New Testament doesn't teach that "the Lord [Jesus] is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17). You had not even the heart to try.
Its sound exegesis and reasonable logic to interpret that when Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as "rivers of living water" flowing the Lord Jesus is Himself is indicated. He became a divine life giving Spirit in resurrection.
BECAUSE "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17) and
"[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)
Nothing new in this failure of yours. You've flunked on it for years.
Using derogatory descriptions like "ramblings" hasn't done the job for you.
2) Ghost of a Duke highlighting that telling people to “call to Jesus 10 times” is paganism, which it is.
This thread title was some reaction to someone insisting that to repeat calling on the Lord was necessarily bad. So I compensated overmuch and started the thread - Call on Jesus 10 Times..
And I stand by what I advised in this thread.
No false teaching indicated Divegeester.
Just some stuff that rubs you the wrong way.
12 Mar 21
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@divegeester saidNot odd at all. It improves on the doctrine of mouth worshipers. The more the better. Its like how Jesus said to do good works, and the more good works the better. The more charity the more treasure in heaven. The more giving more perfect and more like Christ one becomes.
And why “10 times”?
It’s all a bit odd.
In Sonships case the more mouth worship the more one becomes like Witness Lee and closer to Satan.