24 Apr 14
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyyes and you raise an excellent point GB, how is it possible to reach Christian maturity with study? The apostle Paul himself recognised this and offered counsel in the letter of Hebrews to press on to maturity.
To glorify God in time is the plan for all believers: realizing the tranquility, peace, happiness and contentment that comes from learning Bible doctrine and advancing to spiritual maturity. Romans 12:2 New American Standard Bible: "And do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of ...[text shortened]... ernity: becoming "shipwrecked", as Paul said, preoccupied with instant gratification diversions.
(Hebrews 6:1) For this reason, now that we have left the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity
He then goes on to speak of primary doctrines and prior to this uses the illustration of milk, as in when a baby needs to be fed milk as opposed to solid food. The immature Christian needs to study in order to be able to take in and digest solid 'spiritual food!'
Originally posted by PudgenikThe Hebrews diligently made copies of the Hebrew portion of the Bible for thousands of years, that they were not put into book form is hardly relevant at all, these scrolls existed and were available. Jesus used them to reason and so did Paul. The fact that the entire Bible was not complied is irrelevant.
The scriptures were never set into a book set till the Catholic monks in the third century compiled them. Up until that time all the writings were done on scrolls.
(Acts 8:27, 28) With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah.
(2 Timothy 4:13)When you come, bring the cloak I left at Troas with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the parchments.
(Acts 17:2, 3) So according to Paul’s custom he went inside to them, and for three sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and [saying]: “This is the Christ, this Jesus whom I am publishing to you.”
there instances which prove that scripture was available, that it was read, studied and used by first century Christians. How was it possible for Paul to find these references if he had not studied scripture? how was it possible for him to reason on those references if he had not studied scripture? Infact what emerges is that the Christians entire method was to help people understand God by means of references to scripture.
24 Apr 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"yes and you raise an excellent point GB, how is it possible to reach Christian maturity with [without] study?" -rc
yes and you raise an excellent point GB, how is it possible to reach Christian maturity with study? The apostle Paul himself recognised this and offered counsel in the letter of Hebrews to press on to maturity.
(Hebrews 6:1) For this reason, now that we have left the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity
He then goes o ...[text shortened]... ature Christian needs to study in order to be able to take in and digest solid 'spiritual food!'
Originally posted by PudgenikAll you need is love? now where have i heard that before, oh yeah, it was some stoned band from Liverpool called The Beetles.
You can study till the cows come home. Have all the knowlege of the universe. Know everything, but it won't get you any closer to God.
Now the strange thing about God is that he is simple. Simple to follow, simple to be with. It is quite easy, just have to love. Yep that is it, Love. That is the key to everything with God.
Jesus (Rob, Jesus said thi ...[text shortened]... ng more than what Satan has. God is love, and Satan rejected God. Therefore Satan rejected love.
No one is claiming that having love for God, ones neighbour is not important, but emotionalism is a very poor substitute for study and its this type of thinking that will keep a Christian immature, stunted in his or her spiritual growth. We need to take in solid spiritual food in order to grow, feed yourself on a diet of milk and you will be malnourished spiritually speaking, a spiritual babe.
Originally posted by PudgenikI have not claimed that there is anything wrong with study, my claim is that Christians substitute emotionalism for it the result being that they utter forth platitudes like, 'God is simple', 'all you need is love' and have an emotional rather than a rational basis for their faith. It is still not apparent to me how one can get to know God except for study, perhaps you can explain how its possible?
There is nothing wrong with study. Your agruement began because you disagreed with me about how simple God is. When i told you loving God was all that was needed.
24 Apr 14
Originally posted by whodeyWhy did what not help them whodey? knowledge? because their motivations for studying were wrong, that is why. Now to attempt to use the example of the Pharisees as some kind of inducement for a Christian not to engage in study is actually fairly perverse.
I have pointed out that the religious leaders during the time of Jesus were just such examples. Why did it not help them do you suppose?
The Bible does say that his people perish for a lack of knowledge, therefore, I have no problem with knowledge in and of itself. The question from me, rather, is why does it save some and seem to damn others?
you have still failed to offer a comment upon John 17:3 that taking in knowledge leads to everlasting life and indeed neither you nor any of these other dissenters can tell us how its possible to get to know God apart from study.
24 Apr 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyNone of us can "love" anyone until we first get to know them
None of us can "love" anyone until we first get to know them. Love at first sight is a destructive myth: it's more likely than not physical or personality attraction or carnal lust on the hoof. We have no capacity to love God from ignorance.
brilliant! and therefore how do we get to know God except through the medium of study!
24 Apr 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have been a Christian for more than 25 years and have never once heard any other Christian say either other those phrases.
... my claim is that Christians substitute emotionalism for it the result being that they utter forth platitudes like, 'God is simple', 'all you need is love' and have an emotional rather than a rational basis for their faith.
Of the Christians I know well, none of them has either an emotional nor a rational basis for their faith. In fact the statement is counter intuitive because faith is neither emotional nor rational.
Ps please excuse the use of references to personal experiences.
24 Apr 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJeremiah 31:33-34
?.. and therefore how do we get to know God except through the medium of study!
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”