22 Oct 17
Originally posted by @moonbusYou mistake the Christan church for the Roman Catholic church. You are stuck in Euro madman view of reality. No individuals, just masses of people in a struggle to dominate other groups. No freedom, just who has control.
My beliefs are supported by massively coherent evidence and are consistent with laws of nature. That makes them more than opinions.
Christianity got it wrong about Galileo. Wrong again about Copernicus. The track record of dogma against science in matters pertaining to how narture works is bad and not getting better.
You fear giving up control will open the way for a different group to force their views on you.
22 Oct 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @deepthoughtThose questions can be answered though. I think it's seismology and relative mass measurements that demonstrate the center of the earth is liquid iron. I'm not sure about the sun, but it's nature can theoretically be established.
It's fun to ask questions such as what is it like in the centre of the Earth or the Sun. In both cases there are some pretty direct constraints on our ability to make direct measurements of the conditions in those places, the answers to those questions might be regarded as having utility. Whether they do or not, it's not clear to me that utility is a determinant of what comes under the purview of Science.
22 Oct 17
Originally posted by @eladarSo, it's a control thing for you, is it? You think someone is trying to control your beliefs? You may be right, but you're pointing your finger at the wrong suspects.
You mistake the Christan church for the Roman Catholic church. You are stuck in Euro madman view of reality. No individuals, just masses of people in a struggle to dominate other groups. No freedom, just who has control.
You fear giving up control will open the way for a different group to force their views on you.
Evangelicals did not get it more right on those issues than the Catholic Church. The Vatican at least grudgingly admitted that evolution really happened (without yet admitting deep time); Evangelicals are still fighting evolution tooth and nail.
22 Oct 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @moonbusPeople are not trying to control my beliefs, but the beliefs of children entrusted to schools for their "education".
So, it's a control thing for you, is it? You think someone is trying to control your beliefs? You may be right, but you're pointing your finger at the wrong suspects.
Evangelicals did not get it more right on those issues than the Catholic Church. The Vatican at least grudgingly admitted that evolution really happened (without yet admitting deep time); Evangelicals are still fighting evolution tooth and nail.
Kids educated in those schools get the idea that evolution is a proven fact. They are told that the Bible is incorrect. The power of government is used to produce atheists, a certain brand of religious belief.
For you it is control so that kids are taught what to believe concerning human origins.
Originally posted by @eladarI was not taught that the Bible is incorrect. I was taught to think logically and critically, not to accept statements on authority because somebody says so or because 'it is written', and my curiosity was inspired by watching great minds at work.
People are not trying to control my beliefs, but the beliefs of children entrusted to schools for their "education".
Kids educated in those schools get the idea that evolution is a proven fact. They are told that the Bible is incorrect. The power of government is used to produce atheists, a certain brand of religious belief.
For you it is control so that kids are taught what to believe concerning human origins.
Perhaps education in America has in the meantime fallen away from that ideal. If so, I am indeed sorry and worry for the future, not only of freedom in America but elsewhere.
Edit: evolution does rule out belief in God. It only indicates that life did not appear all at once, simple as well as complex forms, in a short time.
23 Oct 17
Originally posted by @handyandyOops, quite right. Failure to proof read.
I think you meant to write "evolution does not rule out" etc.
23 Oct 17
On the life origins front, a small breakthrough understanding how abiogenesis could happen:
https://phys.org/news/2017-10-miniature-droplets-origin-of-life-riddle.html
Phosphorous is required for life, at least our kind of life and water in bulk inhibits reactions with phos.
But make the droplets small enough and the reaction rate can go up by thousands or millions of times because small droplets have a large surface area and the small dimesions inhibit molecules from penetrating very deep into the droplet so there are a lot of surface reactions going on.
One small step for man, and a giant leap for lifekind🙂
Originally posted by @humyHmmm, how about "belief that evolution really happened does not rule out belief in God (for example, that evolution is guided by God)," and "evolution does not rule out the existence of God (whether or not God had anything to do with evolution)."
I don't think even
"evolution does not rule out belief in God"
is quite what you wanted to say.
I think you meant
"evolution does not rule out God existing".
I was wondering.
@Andy too
Of course, it is still an open question whether "God" is to mean the God of Abraham or the God of the philosophers or some other.
23 Oct 17
Originally posted by @apathistI guess with life according to Eladar, it's just fine to have 20 billion people on Earth. Even though right now with "only" 8 billion we are using up 50% of the planet's resources already.
I'd like our world to survive and prosper. This bothers you for some reason.
23 Oct 17
Originally posted by @sonhouse"Be fruitful and multiply" made sense when the Hebrews were returning to Palestine from exile and wanted to repopulate their former lands. It no longer makes sense.
I guess with life according to Eladar, it's just fine to have 20 billion people on Earth. Even though right now with "only" 8 billion we are using up 50% of the planet's resources already.
23 Oct 17
Originally posted by @eladarI went to a Lutheran school K-8 grade, and I can guaruntee you they didn't teach evolution, but due to some other circumstances, by the time I was 8, I realized they were ALL full of shyte because I knew they could not ALL be right but they sure as hell could ALL be wrong.
People are not trying to control my beliefs, but the beliefs of children entrusted to schools for their "education".
Kids educated in those schools get the idea that evolution is a proven fact. They are told that the Bible is incorrect. The power of government is used to produce atheists, a certain brand of religious belief.
For you it is control so that kids are taught what to believe concerning human origins.
So I got liberated from the yolk of religion quite early. My 8th grade teacher was especially anti-science and we (the kids in class) all knew it. He got no converts.