Abiogenesis and evolution: James Tour

@kellyjay said
BS!!
"Doctor I'm sick why, what is wrong with me?
"Well dear patient you have XYZ, and this is making you sick."

All of our endeavors are to look at why, unless like you, the why means something you don't want it to mean, then I don't care what is shown you, what is demonstrated right in front of you, you only need one tiny reason to say, no, that is not enough, to get away from a conclusion your worldview wants to avoid at all cost.

This is a thread about abiogenesis. "Abiogenesis" means how the most primitive life forms, much more primitive even than bacteria, could have come about through chemistry. You keep introducing things which have nothing to do with it; "needs", for example. Chemicals don't have needs. So needs have no bearing on abiogenesis. If you want to talk about reasons why, take it to Spirituality. This forum is about the how, not the why. That's what science is about.

All of your endeavours are to impose one quite particular "why-answer" on everything you see. I'm not avoiding anything; I'm just keeping categories from getting mixed up. Science deals with how-questions and provides how-answers, not why- questions and -answers. Moreover, your "why-answer" does not in fact fit the "how" topic posed in this thread, because there is no evidence of God's Hand in chemical reactions. You merely suppose a transcendental cause based on your sense that the presumed effect could not have been produced any other way (or because we cannot produce the same effect). You are afflicted with the same ignorance of natural processes which led our ancestors to think diseases and eclipses and earthquakes were caused by God. But we have since investigated diseases and eclipses and earthquakes scientifically, we know now what causes them, and there is no evidence of the Hand of God in any of them.


When you go to a medical doctor, you expect a causal explanation. Not this :
"Pastor, Pastor, I'm sick! Why ?? What is wrong with me?"
"Well, my son, you're a sinner. If you can't think of anything to confess, then it is Adam's sin you're expiating." Illness is part of God's Plan to burn the pride and dross out of us. That's the Christian Scientists' [sic] why-answer 'explanation' of illness. Take it to Spirituality. I'm sure you'll get a rousing response there.

@moonbus said
This is a thread about abiogenesis. "Abiogenesis" means how the most primitive life forms, much more primitive even than bacteria, could have come about through chemistry. You keep introducing things which have nothing to do with it; "needs", for example. Chemicals don't have needs. So needs have no bearing on abiogenesis. If you want to talk about reasons why, take it to Spi ...[text shortened]... /i] 'explanation' of illness. Take it to Spirituality. I'm sure you'll get a rousing response there.

Well, stop making claims that have no basis on the topic of abiogenesis, that is life from non-life, which we have never seen yet you believe in it. Every occurrence of life we do see, and have seen have all come from life, not non-life. Every time we see the arraignment of things that build, inform, instruct, guild, and improve functionally specified systems it is always due to a mind, not mindlessness. You are long on faith without evidence, and bringing up God as if I have to prove He is real does not void your lack of evidence or the fact you have to rely on the evolution of the gaps when it comes to evolution, and you don't even have a description outside of miracle when it comes to abiogenesis.

@moonbus said
This is a thread about abiogenesis. "Abiogenesis" means how the most primitive life forms, much more primitive even than bacteria, could have come about through chemistry. You keep introducing things which have nothing to do with it; "needs", for example. Chemicals don't have needs. So needs have no bearing on abiogenesis. If you want to talk about reasons why, take it to Spi ...[text shortened]... /i] 'explanation' of illness. Take it to Spirituality. I'm sure you'll get a rousing response there.

Take it to the Spiritual forum.

@KellyJay

You have now sent me another cowardly PM while putting me back on ignore. Here it is:

RE : if you wish to talk
“You are on ignore, have been for some time, and will continue to be. If you want to converse we can one on one, I'm not interested in your marginalizing, your grandstanding, your insults, and the lies you tell. If you want to conversation in a game we can have if not, we will not have one.”

I’m not interested in playing a game of chess with you to “talk”. I’ll continue to respond to your forum posts in public.

Please desist in sending me PMs.

@divegeester

James T. Kirk again, I see.

@moonbus said
@divegeester

James T. Kirk again, I see.

Kellyjay has me on long term ignore, takes me off ignore to send a creepy PM, puts me back on ignore, takes me off ignore, sends me another creepy PM, puts me back on ignore, starts a chess game with FMF, gets a load of feedback from FMF…

Analysis Mr Spock?

@divegeester said
Kellyjay has me on long term ignore, takes me off ignore to send a creepy PM, puts me back on ignore, takes me off ignore, sends me another creepy PM, puts me back on ignore, starts a chess game with FMF, gets a load of feedback from FMF…

Analysis Mr Spock?

Creepy......

@divegeester said
Kellyjay has me on long term ignore, takes me off ignore to send a creepy PM, puts me back on ignore, takes me off ignore, sends me another creepy PM, puts me back on ignore, starts a chess game with FMF, gets a load of feedback from FMF…

Analysis Mr Spock?

"I believe the correct colloquial term on your old Earth would have been a 'hit-&-run driver', Captain."

@kellyjay said
Why is that?

Science is not capable of addressing "why" we are here or "why" platelets cause life-threatening blood clots in healthy people. It's just not. If you are interested in those questions, ask a different forum.

@kellyjay said
Well, stop making claims that have no basis on the topic of abiogenesis, that is life from non-life, which we have never seen yet you believe in it. Every occurrence of life we do see, and have seen have all come from life, not non-life. Every time we see the arraignment of things that build, inform, instruct, guild, and improve functionally specified systems it is always ...[text shortened]... to evolution, and you don't even have a description outside of miracle when it comes to abiogenesis.

Apparently you think science is just another “faith”, a different kind of religion, but with a god-shaped hole in it. It isn’t.

@moonbus said
Apparently you think science is just another “faith”, a different kind of religion, but with a god-shaped hole in it. It isn’t.

Take it to the Spiritual forum, our worldviews we use to address all of the big picture issues. I'm asking about those things we can see, and understand, can they be done with mindlessness as the driving force, or is more required? If you can demonstrate that what we see in life and the balance of the universe is an act of mindlessness then do it. If all you got is, I would not have done it that way, this is how it should have been done, well that is faith.

@wildgrass said
Science is not capable of addressing "why" we are here or "why" platelets cause life-threatening blood clots in healthy people. It's just not. If you are interested in those questions, ask a different forum.

Why things break down becomes known, and causes for diseases and other health issues are found all of the time, what exactly do you think science does? Look up the word research you'd be amazed at things we study and find answers for.

@kellyjay said
Take it to the Spiritual forum, our worldviews we use to address all of the big picture issues. I'm asking about those things we can see, and understand, can they be done with mindlessness as the driving force, or is more required? If you can demonstrate that what we see in life and the balance of the universe is an act of mindlessness then do it. If all you got is, I would not have done it that way, this is how it should have been done, well that is faith.

There are both liquid water and organic chemicals on one of the moons of Saturn. That is fact, not faith. It proves your Prof. Tours wrong; the conditions which facilitate life are not improbable. It is not necessary to assume divine intervention to account for this. Webb telescope has proof, we can see this. It’s not a miracle which defies explanation. Just keep mixing the chemicals, that is all that is going on there, and that is all that went on here too as far as the evidence shows. Of course, that does not mean we will find life on Saturn’s moon; we don’t know that yet. But the basic chemistry is the same here as there, there is simply no doubt of that.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/01/world/saturn-moon-water-plume-enceladus-scn/index.html

@kellyjay said
Why things break down becomes known, and causes for diseases and other health issues are found all of the time, what exactly do you think science does? Look up the word research you'd be amazed at things we study and find answers for.

You silly goose. Those are obviously 'how' questions. Mechanism addresses how clocks work, not why they work.

Why does disease exist? The scientific method does not care.

@moonbus said
There are both liquid water and organic chemicals on one of the moons of Saturn. That is fact, not faith. It proves your Prof. Tours wrong; the conditions which facilitate life are not improbable. It is not necessary to assume divine intervention to account for this. Webb telescope has proof, we can see this. It’s not a miracle which defies explanation. Just keep mixing the c ...[text shortened]... that.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/01/world/saturn-moon-water-plume-enceladus-scn/index.html

As I pointed out to you, the arrangement of all the necessary pieces of every life is the thing that matters, in the proper sequence, with the proper quantities, and so on! NO ONE disputes they exist, you can order some and have them delivered to your door for crying out loud. You did actually listen to the whole thing, didn't you?