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@sh76 saidIt's not a cultural question, its a moral and legal one.
There are some cultures wherein the ability to marry at 16 or 17 is important. Parental consent is a decent compromise that allows this to happen.
There's no cultural imperative to allow children to choose the next President at an age that they're almost certainly not mature enough to understand the ramifications of that choice.
There's an argument in there where a kid working at Starbucks, paying taxes, legally allowed to be married and buy a gun, prohibited from medical abortion, should also be able to participate in the political process.
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@no1marauder saidWhen the 2 people are comparably aged, that's one thing, but a 40 year old guy and a 14 year old girl? That's kinda rapey.
Do you think people at that age don't have sex?
What is the upside of criminalizing it?
Age of consent laws generally apply to people not in the age group with someone in the age group, not when both are in the same age group.
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@wildgrass saidYou can't make the determinations on an individual basis. Sure there are mature 12 year olds and immature 45 year olds, but as a whole, people below a certain age are not mature enough to be entrusted with choosing the country's government.
It's not a cultural question, its a moral and legal one.
There's an argument in there where a kid working at Starbucks, paying taxes, legally allowed to be married and buy a gun, prohibited from medical abortion, should also be able to participate in the political process.
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@sh76 saidI'm not making determinations on an individual basis. Why did you write that?
You can't make the determinations on an individual basis. Sure there are mature 12 year olds and immature 45 year olds, but as a whole, people below a certain age are not mature enough to be entrusted with choosing the country's government.
The law sets age limits. I think if a 16 year old is paying taxes they should be allowed to vote.
@wildgrass saidIf on net they pay taxes.
I'm not making determinations on an individual basis. Why did you write that?
The law sets age limits. I think if a 16 year old is paying taxes they should be allowed to vote.
I've often floated this idea. Your vote is weighted on how much tax you pay. Claiming pollies, goobermint bureaurats, and dole bludgers, beneficiaries and kaka bamboozles pay tax is false.
Stage 1: Anyone that receives more from the goobermint than they pay, loses their right to vote their hand into the pocket of others. Everyone else in effect gets to vote on how their money is spent.
Stage 2: Your vote becomes weighted i.e. pay twice as much get twice as many votes to spend. This is a self correcting system where people paying the most vote towards lowering that burden on themselves.
You're right, abandon age limits, your vote is based on how much you've paid which also happens to, all but, eliminate typical teenage scatter brains because they're not paying much anyway.
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@wajoma saidErr it's not how much you pay. Because that amount is dependent on the political system you are voting for or against.
If on net they pay taxes.
I've often floated this idea. Your vote is weighted on how much tax you pay. Claiming pollies, goobermint bureaurats, and dole bludgers, beneficiaries and kaka bamboozles pay tax is false.
Stage 1: Anyone that receives more from the goobermint than they pay, loses their right to vote their hand into the pocket of others. Everyone e ...[text shortened]... appens to, all but, eliminate typical teenage scatter brains because they're not paying much anyway.
Sixteen year olds participate in the system. They pay taxes. Why should they not have a vote?
@wildgrass saidI'm agreeeeeeinnnnng.
Err it's not how much you pay. Because that amount is dependent on the political system you are voting for or against.
Sixteen year olds participate in the system. They pay taxes. Why should they not have a vote?
If people should be able to vote if they pay, then people that don't pay*** shouldn't be able to vote. That's logic, try some.
I'm agreeeeeeing.
***pollies, goobermint bureaurats, dole bludgers, beneficiaries, kaka bamboozles.
@no1marauder saidLOL - rights of people, yea right.
Gee, tell us what part of your "libertarian" philosophy justifies the State taking away a person's right to vote just because they have committed a crime?
If the democrats are doing it, it is only because their party benefits by it.
you know they don't really give a hoot about America, right??
Party Party Party, that's all they care about
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@averagejoe1 saidThis line of thought is a loser.
If my 11 year old child works in my office, stacking boxes, you are saying that he should be able to vote. And, Your comment about taxes is stupid. I could conversely say that if a 42 year old man is NOT working and is NOT paying taxes he should NOT be able to vote. Your comments are inane. However, your said comment is a PERFECT example of the failure of logic among ALL of the liberals on this site.
There, I said it.
@wildgrass said'Parental consent' sounds to me like the parent gets a second vote.
It sounds like you're arguing in favor of 16 year olds voting with parental consent?
This is solidly against 'one person, one vote'.
@vivify saidI think tying the right to vote to marriage or having a job is also a bad idea.
There are some states where 16 yr olds can legally marry.
If you're a married 16 yr old, shouldn't you then have a right to vote?
Yes, 16 yr olds shouldn't be marrying in the first place; but given that some currently are, maybe a voting exception can be made for them?
Also something to ponder: 16 year olds can legally work and their income is taxed. If they pay taxes, shouldn't that be consideration for a vote?
15-year-olds have to wait 'til 16 to drive.
16-year-olds can wait 'til 18 to vote.
Let's start taking the vote seriously in this country.
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@averagejoe1 saidHow would he 'close the border' on Day One if it is not closed now? Idiotic.
@AverageJoe1
12,000. Just want to be sure you saw that. And you fret that Trump said he would close the border on Day One.....? Oh I know you were offfeeeennnnnnnnnnnddded that he said he would do what a dicator would do. Offennnnded about the way he said he would "Fulfill his oath of office, defending our country" which is being given the finger by Biden.
Do y'all just hate my truthful honest enlightening inarguable posts?
Trump says a lot of stupid sh--.
All he'd have to do is nothing, like he usually does. It's closed now, it would be closed with him in office. Duh. It doesn't mean HE did it. Damn, you guys are gullible.
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@averagejoe1 saidAre you an idiot?
Look out, mentioning culture can confuse these people, they only know the R word.
Wait, we already know the answer.
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@kewpie saidWe either think the right to vote is important, or we do not.
Politicians design the world our young people will have to live in. They're entitled to have a say in future-changing decision-making. After all, most of the people frequenting this forum won't be here in 2050.
Giving kids the vote isn't respecting the vote.