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@averagejoe1 said
You are right, but you choose to say the fact of that in a very cryptic way. The federal government has money, from tax revenues, in a program called welfare which should be used to pay everything for 50 million people who are desperate. It is presently doing just that, but it seems that it is paying for many many more people, which is a problem.
So we all agree ...[text shortened]... you see at the circus, we would understand what that means. But that is not what it is. What is it?
So we all agree on the welfare program that exists right now
Phew, I thought I'd lost you. Fine we can call it welfare instead of safety net.
The existence of these welfare programs necessitates setting a minimum wage. If it's set too low, then it's abused by companies to supplement their workers income. This is why wajoma keeps running into the "welp, if that didn't exist then.. problem solved ... " like he wrote something useful.
Welfare exists. It's not ever going anywhere. Companies like Amazon take advantage. Thousands collect food stamps. It's a problem.
Raising the minimum wage may not be the best solution (Earl had a good idea) but it is the simplest, easiest way to fix that. This reduces the role of government in these people's lives.
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@wildgrass saidEarl's idea was to tax the rich,,,,,is that what you refer to? But don't we already tax the rich and everyone in the 52% of citizens who pay taxes? Does he mean tax them more? How much more, I guess we can wonder, no one ever tells us. I have huge returns on NVIDIA (hope you followed my lead, up $100 yesterday), and will pay a lot of tax on that gain. Should the tax due be increased? How much? And did you ever define 'fair share'? You did not wrap up your not-answer to definind Living Wage. Can you do that now?So we all agree on the welfare program that exists right now
Phew, I thought I'd lost you. Fine we can call it welfare instead of safety net.
The existence of these welfare programs necessitates setting a minimum wage. If it's set too low, then it's abused by companies to supplement their workers income. This is why wajoma keeps running into the "welp, if ...[text shortened]... the simplest, easiest way to fix that. This reduces the role of government in these people's lives.
Yes, we all like welfare when it goes to the right people. As far as I am concerned, the tuition gifts is Welfare. Of course it is. It is welfare. Are you including debt repayment as welfare?
Your minimum wage fix does nothing. You are wrong. You realize, Wildgrass, that if that were the solution, it would done. So, there MUST be a downside. Hmmmmmm. I think I have already explained how it would skew the economy, whereupon your congressman and Biden would simply institute wage controls, etc.
And did you actually say that role of govt is reduced??!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
Whew again.
@averagejoe1 said
Earl's idea was to tax the rich,,,,,is that what you refer to? But don't we already tax the rich and everyone in the 52% of citizens who pay taxes? Does he mean tax them more? How much more, I guess we can wonder, no one ever tells us. I have huge returns on NVIDIA (hope you followed my lead, up $100 yesterday), and will pay a lot of tax on that gain. Should the ta ...[text shortened]... And did you actually say that role of govt is reduced??!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
Whew again.
And did you actually say that role of govt is reduced??!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
Yes of course. Raising the minimum wage reduces taxpayer subsidization of low wage work. It will substantially lower the amount of money spent on SNAP. It puts more money into workers wallets that didn't come from the government.
Higher minimum wage reduces the size of government. This is fact.
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@wildgrass saidAnd I can see you're a fellow deep thinker too, this is good also. But now you need to get the good gear on because we're about to go to the bottom of the Marianas trench. This is where we're going 👇👇
I can tell you're a deep thinker. Good, you identified another potential solution. But this one is not supported in any serious way by any politician who actually exists. A pipe dream. A fairy tale. It's a solution for people who don't want to actually solve problems.
I am the owner of my own life.
How was that, can you feel the pressure crushing in, you better believe it and we're only at 5000m. Let's go deeper. 👇👇
I am the owner of my own life therefore an hour of my time belongs to me.
And so we go on, deeper, deeper.👇👇
Do you know what that means, it means I can give my time away if I want, volunteer at the local fire brigade, help a friend, a relation. That's none of your business, because that's what it means to own an hour of your time.
Hold on to your head wildgrass, because we're nearly there ,11000m deep thought👇👇
If I want to sell an hour of my time for 50cents that's none of your business. BOOM
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@wildgrass saidYour post here only looks at 'raising the wage' from employee perspective. Oh boy, we make more money.And did you actually say that role of govt is reduced??!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
Yes of course. Raising the minimum wage reduces taxpayer subsidization of low wage work. It will substantially lower the amount of money spent on SNAP. It puts more money into workers wallets that didn't come from the government.
Higher minimum wage reduces the size of government. This is fact.
You constantly only show one side. Need I mention the resulting pressure on hte management and health of the business, reducing their established bottom line? SO, they will put a smaller amount of cereal in the cereal box, and you whiners will whine about that.
Tell us, what is the best way for the biz to maintain its status without closing down? Marauder would simply say to nationalize the business. What would you say?>
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@AverageJoe1
I wonder if you will mention the govt with your answer. Of course, they have nothing to do with the business. But go ahead, getting bored goes with the territory.
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@averagejoe1 saidMy perspective is not from the employee at all. Indeed I care not what house painters are paid unless they paint my house.
Your post here only looks at 'raising the wage' from employee perspective. Oh boy, we make more money.
You constantly only show one side. Need I mention the resulting pressure on hte management and health of the business, reducing their established bottom line? SO, they will put a smaller amount of cereal in the cereal box, and you whiners will whine about that.
...[text shortened]... without closing down? Marauder would simply say to nationalize the business. What would you say?>
My perspective is from a taxpayer and a voter interested in solutions to decrease the size of government. I care about this. I do not want my tax dollars subsidizing the payroll at Amazon. Raising the minimum wage would solve the problem.
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@wajoma saidYou're a hopeless idealist and I appreciate that. It may be the world we envision, just not the one we live in currently.
And I can see you're a fellow deep thinker too, this is good also. But now you need to get the good gear on because we're about to go to the bottom of the Marianas trench. This is where we're going 👇👇
I am the owner of my own life.
How was that, can you feel the pressure crushing in, you better believe it and we're only at 5000m. Let's go deeper. 👇👇
I am the owner of ...[text shortened]... eep thought👇👇
If I want to sell an hour of my time for 50cents that's none of your business. BOOM
Here in the matrix, minimum wages are a patch to a less than perfect system. We can do our part to shrink the current size of government by raising it.
@wildgrass saidI didn't realise Denmark, Finland, Singapore had descended into anarchy (wildgrsses argument for enforcing artificial price controls)
You're a hopeless idealist and I appreciate that. It may be the world we envision, just not the one we live in currently.
Here in the matrix, minimum wages are a patch to a less than perfect system. We can do our part to shrink the current size of government by raising it.
The minimum wage is a means for politicians to buy your support with other peoples money, and by other peoples money I don't mean theirs. They buy your support using your money, it's fantasy land economics where as I have already made clear, so clear it can't be written enough, even they know there are limits before it causes serious harm, they play the game to keep stringing along true believers like wildgrass just dangling the bait keeping the min rate just high enough to maintain the facade they're doing something but low enough that it doesn't cause the harm even left wingers know comes with jacking it too high.
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@wajoma saidYou might have a point except for all the full time employees at Amazon collecting food stamps. Simple math mate.
I didn't realise Denmark, Finland, Singapore had descended into anarchy (wildgrsses argument for enforcing artificial price controls)
The minimum wage is a means for politicians to buy your support with other peoples money, and by other peoples money I don't mean theirs. They buy your support using your money, it's fantasy land economics where as I have already made clear, ...[text shortened]... but low enough that it doesn't cause the harm even left wingers know comes with jacking it too high.
Higher minimum wage = smaller government
Lower minimum wage = bigger government
Pick a side.
Politicians aren't buying support with minimum wages, because take home pay for these workers doesn't change much. It's either coming from your employer or your goobermint. But politicians are soliciting massive corporate campaign donations by keeping the minimum wage artificially low. Unfortunate that taxpayers then need to step in and fill the gap.
There is corporate harm from high minimum wages. This is acceptable because it shrinks government dependence.
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@wildgrass saidWould I lie? These libs are purposely confusing. I recommend avoiding all lib posts to avoid getting picked up by an ambulance.
My perspective is not from the employee at all. Indeed I care not what house painters are paid unless they paint my house.
My perspective is from a taxpayer and a voter interested in solutions to decrease the size of government. I care about this. I do not want my tax dollars subsidizing the payroll at Amazon. Raising the minimum wage would solve the problem.
After all of Wgrass drivel he says that he does NOT care what I pay my house painter, which is saying the painter and myself can arrive at our own contract. I am real cheap and will tell him that I will pay $5, and throw in an old tire out back. He looks really bedraggled, and I took advantage of that, and he TOOK my offer. So, he and I are in business. Does Marauder know of your position on this?
With this postion of Wgrass, in para one, the rest of what he says is quite irrelavant, unnconnected to the housepainter analogy.
Note that he ends his not-point by suggesting raising the minimum wage, but as I mentioned 2 clicks back, he does not consider what the effect of a raise is on an employer. Like my OP says, it is all so funny!
Please re-read his 2nd para, it is a hoot. You're left with no where to go!
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@wildgrass saidI love his 'patch' comment. Of course all of us , even Kev, will think immediately of the 'thumb in the dam' fable.
You're a hopeless idealist and I appreciate that. It may be the world we envision, just not the one we live in currently.
Here in the matrix, minimum wages are a patch to a less than perfect system. We can do our part to shrink the current size of government by raising it.
My granny says it has something to do with impending disaster.
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@wajoma saidGood post,,,Thumb.
I didn't realise Denmark, Finland, Singapore had descended into anarchy (wildgrsses argument for enforcing artificial price controls)
The minimum wage is a means for politicians to buy your support with other peoples money, and by other peoples money I don't mean theirs. They buy your support using your money, it's fantasy land economics where as I have already made clear, ...[text shortened]... but low enough that it doesn't cause the harm even left wingers know comes with jacking it too high.
You know, this turkey may be a grad student using his idiot (and often purposely conflicting) posts to draw us in so that he can do a paper on us.
Could be. I don't think he is insane, so what could it be?
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@averagejoe1 saidDid anyone explain the common sense, or the fallacy, of this premise?
OK. You know what living wage is. Well kick butt for Wgrass.
Tell us the answer here. Two guys work same job at hardwware store. Guy who i s single makes $25. It is enough to 'Live' on. A living wage. The def of you and Marauder. We all get that,,,,,a living wage!!! Yay! The other guy, married, 3 children. He cannot 'Live on' of $25.00. That wage is NOT ...[text shortened]... living wage....you have not yet done so. Eager minds await. What. is. your precious govt to do??