@averagejoe1 saidThe minimum wage should go up to match the poverty line. That's the compromise between this politicians hair-brained idea of $50/hour and the current system that rewards companies who underpay their employees by giving them free groceries.
But. you are the on one trhing to explain BS. When you fellers come up with this haribrained reasoning, the first reaction of a capitalist (free market, free enterprise, no govt control other than OSHA and FDA, etc) is that if his ideas are so correct, why is it not done? Wildgrass for President!
Note that this thread is to have an outrageous minimum wage, causing ...[text shortened]... f, would they wildgrass.
You will not answer this question. This is where i say 'back at 'ya".
...how bout you get us back on track and convince us that teh cost of goods would not skyrocket.
Yes, of course. The costs of goods are artificially deflated by an influx of government cash. You pay less for shipping on Amazon, but are taxed more. If you remove government spending programs then the cost transfers to businesses and then on to consumers. I'm dismayed that US conservatives seem to have learned all the wrong lessons from Reagan. He discovered that he could "stimulate" the economy by spending government cheese, leading to big economic growth but also massive deficits and increased tax burden.
Alternatively, if workers are paid a living wage, then the cost of government safety net programs go down. This will decrease the tax burden eventually.
BTW - The conservatives on this thread have done an awful job arguing against minimum wage increases.
sh76 - Trickle down economics! Really? That's a scam.
Wajoma - Eliminate all social programs. FAFO. ANARCHY IS THE ONLY WAY!
Joe - you're practically a socialist now, arguing in favor of government-fixing prices for goods and services.
Are there no sane conservatives? Maybe just none on this forum?
100d
1 edit
@wildgrass saidBut that's what happens when the min rate is forced up, that's what you're saying, the rate goes up to eliminate the assistance programs, isn't that your argument, the assistance programs were your gripe. Or you want the rate to be forced up and then the continued forced assistance?
Wajoma - Eliminate all social programs. FAFO. ANARCHY IS THE ONLY WAY!
BTW there are plenty of places that don't have so called 'social programs' it does not equal anarchy, including the whole world at one stage. Supposed 'social programs' were not introduced to put an end to non-existent anarchy. You need to tone down the embroidery.
100d
@wildgrass saidWTF, dude? When did I say anything about trickle down economics?
sh76 - Trickle down economics! Really? That's a scam.
Wajoma - Eliminate all social programs. FAFO. ANARCHY IS THE ONLY WAY!
Joe - you're practically a socialist now, arguing in favor of government-fixing prices for goods and services.
Are there no sane conservatives? Maybe just none on this forum?
Jeez.
Before you start calling people insane, maybe read their posts every once in a while.
100d
1 edit
@sh76 saidSo wildgrass was misrepresenting (a polite way of saying lying) what you said, and she was misrepresenting what I said.
WTF, dude? When did I say anything about trickle down economics?
Jeez.
Before you start calling people insane, maybe read their posts every once in a while.
What about Average Joe? Well, turns out Average Joe is actually on the money, artificial price controls are exactly the tools of the socialists and left whingers for population subjugation.
Credit where credit is due, 1 out of 3 is good going for wildgrass.
100d
1 edit
@wajoma saidExaggerating, maybe. Not lying.
So wildgrass was misrepresenting (a polite way of saying lying) what you said, and she was misrepresenting what I said.
What about Average Joe? Well, turns out Average Joe is actually on the money, artificial price controls are exactly the tools of the socialists and left whingers for population subjugation.
Credit where credit is due, 1 out of 3 is good going for wildgrass.
sh76 replied to my correct statement "A higher minimum wage shrinks government" by correctly writing that "... it also shrinks companies." Yes. All true. But this is the core refrain from trickle down economists (a.k.a. con artists) since the 1980s. If Uncle Sam would just give us money and subsidies, we can 'create' all the jobs you need.
Your statement on the other hand about nixing the safety net is utterly untenable, in the USA at least. I mean, you're right in that it fixes the problem, but no one with the power to make such a change would ever suggest it. The most conservative politicians among us continually remind us that they want to "preserve" these programs, and they're booted out of the GOP for saying otherwise. This is why the minimum wage gets brought up again and again, because it fixes what the government already broke.
And yes, Joe's a socialist. Thanks for the kudos.
I can't write it enough. Amazon's netting $5 billion a quarter, and still asks taxpayers to pay for their employees to buy groceries. That's a broken system, but serious people don't propose workable solutions. Status quo or bust.
99d
The last person who tried to do anything about our social safety net in the US was Paul Ryan. All he wanted was reasonable, and highly appropriate, changes to the retirement age and caps on spending increases for Medicare. Much needed changes.
He was run out of his own Republican party, and politics altogether, within a year. No one's proposed any solutions since.
@wildgrass saidSo you can't write it enough, see what happened there, wildgrass powered up her argument by saying that she can't write it enough, if she could write it enough that would only get part way there, but when it can't be written enough, that means something, that's some next level tactics going on.
I can't write it enough. Amazon's netting $5 billion a quarter, and still asks taxpayers to pay for their employees to buy groceries. That's a broken system, but serious people don't propose workable solutions. Status quo or bust.
But what can't you write enough of? you can't write enough lies? because Amazon is not asking the taxpayers anything about groceries. Some pollies are demanding things of the taxpayers, that's not a demand from amazon. You're trying to direct attention away from the culprits i.e. the politicians that introduced the assistance programs. If there were no assistance programs and Amazon were not paying enough no one would work there. Amazon would have to adjust their rate to answer market demands, not arbitrary numbers pulled out of your butt or the sticky smelly politician butt.
99d
1 edit
@wildgrass saidDo you think that a Suzianne could understand all this. You are off the wall. At end of your post you say AvJoe is for government involvement, fixing prices. We all know I am for government stepping back and watching us have it out in the free market....but then, YOU don't understand even that.
The minimum wage should go up to match the poverty line. That's the compromise between this politicians hair-brained idea of $50/hour and the current system that rewards companies who underpay their employees by giving them free groceries....how bout you get us back on track and convince us that teh cost of goods would not skyrocket.
Yes, of course. The c ...[text shortened]... ng prices for goods and services.
Are there no sane conservatives? Maybe just none on this forum?
I have given you a basic premise, and you will not answer it. It does not involve the govt influx, blah blah blah. If a company is forced to pay what the govt tells them to, it will change their entire business model, and you are right, govt will step in and end up owning the businss, you silly goose. But as a socialist, this is a quite normal concept. Government Government, Government. Jesus. Get off of it.
Who mentioned Amazon shipping? And you have the audacity to mention 'living wage' but have never answered my analogy of two guys working the same job who have different 'needs' requiring different incomes. No one here will answer it. Can you answer that, and then maybe I could have an easier time reading your random comments.
If 2 guys workd the same job, $25 might be more than enough to 'live' on for single guy, but not enough for married guy with 3 children. What should happen here to meet requirements of a living wage?
WHY WHY will you not directly answer this question.
99d
1 edit
@wajoma saidA great post. Unfortunately they will not get it, because, it is too simple. It does not contain enough elements which are important to liberals. You fail to mention the effects or input or control or involvement or dictates or hovering or control of the government. Yet, their responses will reference government. They may even say socialism is the way, when it never has been. They may even say "Why don't we open the borders for all people and repribates of the world to come into our country....change our country....bring their countries into our country???" "And wy don't you conservatives not reallize the greatness of big government?" I will leave uou to answer those questions, Wajoma....I don't have the wherewithall to do so.
So you can't write it enough, see what happened there, wildgrass powered up her argument by saying that she can't write it enough, if she could write it enough that would only get part way there, but when it can't be written enough, that means something, that's some next level tactics going on.
But what can't you write enough of? you can't write enough lies? because Amazon ...[text shortened]... market demands, not arbitrary numbers pulled out of your butt or the sticky smelly politician butt.
Thumb UP!
99d
@mchill saidOK. You know what living wage is. Well kick butt for Wgrass.
I don’t mean to be tedious, but could you really send me some link or some credible article, which defines, as you say, living wage. I don’t think there is one out there
Dear Joe - I spent 45 seconds on the internet and found 3 sites defining the living wage for each state, all backed up by ample economic data. Why do people here have to spoon feed information to you. Can't you look up anything yourself? 🙄
Tell us the answer here. Two guys work same job at hardwware store. Guy who i s single makes $25. It is enough to 'Live' on. A living wage. The def of you and Marauder. We all get that,,,,,a living wage!!! Yay! The other guy, married, 3 children. He cannot 'Live on' of $25.00. That wage is NOT a living wage.
Can you PLEASE now define living wage....you have not yet done so. Eager minds await. What. is. your precious govt to do??
99d
@AverageJoe1
The bottom line is you don't give a rats ass if folks have a living wage or not.
" As long as MY employees don't go on strike I will continue to pay those ungrateful bassturds 7 bucks and hour and if they want more, get a second job somewhere''.
THAT seems to be YOUR bottom line.
99d
@sonhouse saidThat is certainly not the bottom line for this thread. The bottom line of this thread is to make you fellas realize there is no way to determine a living wage. Please stay with a program.
@AverageJoe1
The bottom line is you don't give a rats ass if folks have a living wage or not.
" As long as MY employees don't go on strike I will continue to pay those ungrateful bassturds 7 bucks and hour and if they want more, get a second job somewhere''.
THAT seems to be YOUR bottom line.
99d
@averagejoe1 saidAnd a doff of the cap to you good sir for a fine post.
OK. You know what living wage is. Well kick butt for Wgrass.
Tell us the answer here. Two guys work same job at hardwware store. Guy who i s single makes $25. It is enough to 'Live' on. A living wage. The def of you and Marauder. We all get that,,,,,a living wage!!! Yay! The other guy, married, 3 children. He cannot 'Live on' of $25.00. That wage is NOT ...[text shortened]... living wage....you have not yet done so. Eager minds await. What. is. your precious govt to do??
wildgrass said:
"BTW - The conservatives on this thread have done an awful job arguing against minimum wage increases."
wildgrass is bound by identity politics whether it's grouping disparate people that can see through the economic errors of a min wage or those that she'd wish to capture in the minimum wage loop.
News for wildgrass, we're all individuals and as such each of us has a unique situation, there is no formula for calculating a minimum wage that covers all those situations, it's just a number that politicians pull out of their butt in order to buy votes with other peoples money. Average Joe gave two examples when actually there are millions, the cost of living can differ from county to county let alone state to state, what about the guy that lives next door to walmart and walks to work in 2 minutes versus the guy doing an hour commute each way? There is no way for the state bureaurats to respond to the ever changing unique situation of millions of people, trying to write laws and calculations that change by the minute, yes, I can't write that enough, too, by the minute, by the minute, by the minute costs are changing.
Thankfully the mandated min is low enough that the damage of unintended consequences is small, that's the game they play, it's high enough to fool the gullible but low enough that the knowledgeable can bite their tongue and swallow the bile.
Now that you've been made aware, there are no excuses, will you continue to swallow the bile.
99d
@wildgrass said - I can't write it enough. Amazon's netting $5 billion a quarter, and still asks taxpayers to pay for their employees to buy groceries. That's a broken system, but serious people don't propose workable solutions. Status quo or bust.
=-------------------
Well, I have a serious solution but the pols will never go for it, as it takes a bit of power from the politicians.
STOP TAXING THE POOR PEOPLE.
Can you imagine a taxation system where only the rich pay taxes? You and I can but the Pols can't.
98d
@wajoma said
So you can't write it enough, see what happened there, wildgrass powered up her argument by saying that she can't write it enough, if she could write it enough that would only get part way there, but when it can't be written enough, that means something, that's some next level tactics going on.
But what can't you write enough of? you can't write enough lies? because Amazon ...[text shortened]... market demands, not arbitrary numbers pulled out of your butt or the sticky smelly politician butt.
If there were no assistance programs and Amazon were not paying enough no one would work there. Amazon would have to adjust their rate to answer market demands, not arbitrary numbers pulled out of your butt or the sticky smelly politician butt.
Here you go again with fairy land logic. The minimum wage exists to prevent corporations from exploiting the safety net to pay their workers. But the safety net isn't going anywhere. A complete collapse of the US government would be required to make that happen, resulting in anarchy.
Let me know when you rejoin reality.