Originally posted by AThousandYoungInner city kids need good parents to guide them in the right direction. Rap guides them straight into the prison life. Rap serves no purpose other then to fill the pockets of the thugs that make it.
Maybe we should invest more money into music lessons for inner city children then.
I think you're ignorant of a lot of rap. You sound like anyone who dismisses a group because of stereotypes.
Originally posted by buckkyI agree with your first sentence. Then you seriously lost me.
Inner city kids need good parents to guide them in the right direction. Rap guides them straight into the prison life. Rap serves no purpose other then to fill the pockets of the thugs that make it.
Originally posted by darvlayyou made good points darvlay, and I am somewhat convinced.
[b]"it doesn't require much skill"
A guitar doesn't require much skill to play chords on either yet they are considered instruments. Skill is irrelevant when it comes to defining what an instrument is. Besides, I bet you could play a simple I-IV-V progression on an acoustic guitar but if I put a sampler in front of you, you'd be lost and not know wh ...[text shortened]... nd you have in music, if you play an instrument or have studied any theory.[/b]
I think you may be right about the personal bias affecting the way I think about instruments.
I'm curious to know what background you have in music, if you play an instrument or have studied any theory.
whay are you curious?
but yes I play acoustic guitar.
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Originally posted by generalissimoI was curious because I have a friend who extols these same opinions. He has similar musical tastes as you and is extremely stubborn in his opinion yet has no knowledge of music outside of what he likes and the few chords he can strum on his guitar.
you made good points darvlay, and I am somewhat convinced.
I think you may be right about the personal bias affecting the way I think about instruments.
[b]I'm curious to know what background you have in music, if you play an instrument or have studied any theory.
whay are you curious?
but yes I play acoustic guitar.[/b]
I think it's a big misconception that hip hop takes no talent, skill or musicianship to create. It's an ignorant argument made a lot of times by fans of rock who have some weird chip on their shoulder about the genre as a whole. But like every genre there are always true artists and champions among the utter rubbish.
He likes to say, when he hears something he doesn't like, "This is not even music! They're not even playing instruments!" And I always have to remind him, "It is music. You just don't like it. Big difference."
Originally posted by darvlayI have listened to it, and in my opinion it was just avant-garde crap.
PS - If you really want to get into a discussion of what is and isn't music, have a listen to John Cage's 4' 33" and let me know if you think that's music. Afterwards we'll dig up the old thread and re-hash that debate. It's a good one.
what did you think?
Originally posted by darvlayIt's an ignorant argument made a lot of times by fans of rock who have some weird chip on their shoulder about the genre as a whole.
I was curious because I have a friend who extols these same opinions. He has similar musical tastes as you and is extremely stubborn in his opinion yet has no knowledge of music outside of what he likes and the few chords he can strum on his guitar.
I think it's a big misconception that hip hop takes no talent, skill or musicianship to create. It's an i ...[text shortened]... d I always have to remind him, "It is music. You just don't like it. Big difference."
don't get me wrong, Im not the sort of person who only listens to rock music. I tend to prefer rock over other genres, but I also enjoy many others, like pagode, (some) bossa nova, blues, brazilian country music, etc.
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Originally posted by generalissimoCool.
[b]It's an ignorant argument made a lot of times by fans of rock who have some weird chip on their shoulder about the genre as a whole.
don't get me wrong, Im not the sort of person who only listens to rock music. I tend to prefer rock over other genres, but I also enjoy many others, like pagode, (some) bossa nova, blues, brazilian country music, etc.[/b]
As for John Cage, I find his compositions to be very interesting and enjoyable. I just can't acknowledge 4' 33" as music though. There's gotta be a line and to me, that is it. Ambience, being the sound of silence, while being an element of music is not music in and of itself. It has made me ponder the issue, and perhaps that was Cage's intention, but I cannot concede that 4' 33" is a musical composition. My brain won't let me.
Originally posted by darvlayHow do you feel about Edgar Varese?
Cool.
As for John Cage, I find his compositions to be very interesting and enjoyable. I just can't acknowledge 4' 33" as music though. There's gotta be a line and to me, that is it. Ambience, being the sound of silence, while being an element of music is not music in and of itself. It has made me ponder the issue, and perhaps that was Cage's intention, but I cannot concede that 4' 33" is a musical composition. My brain won't let me.
Originally posted by darvlayI know a lot of people would find it hard to consider his stuff music. I've not heard 4'33" but Varese's work encourages a major detour from traditional rhythm and melody such that it would be hard for those who've not heard it before to understand it or enjoy it. This makes me wonder how much familiarity impacts on our definitions of music or musical enjoyment. When I first listened to some of Zappa's more avante garde pieces (FZ cites Varese as a major influence), I didn't like them at all, but the more I listened to Zappa as a whole the more I began to see how it all fits together, how to understand the artist more. Several years of listening later and I moved into Varese as a result and once again I was struck by a wall of misunderstanding and unfamiliar noises. I'm still trying to understand the complexities therein and how to call it music.
What little I've heard of him sounded interesting. Why?