12 Dec 06
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Originally posted by TheBloopIn the other thread we were talking aobut Josh Gibson and all of the old negro leaguers universally rank him as the greatest of all time.
Yes, true about Wilt and Russell...
When Wilt was piling up his best (scoring) numbers against Russell, the Celtics dominated Wilt's teams. Once Wilt started playing with soem better teammates, his teams won more regularly.
When the Sixers beat the Celtics in the 1967 playoffs, Wilt averaged 22 points, 32 rebounds, and 10 assists -- a triple double-- nt when asked about what he thought of the Bulls three-peats... "Not much" 🙂
Player statements are notoriously unreliable. Russell says that his Celts would have beaten the bulls. LOL! Maybe they would have, (I don't think so) but it is classic Russell.
I read something the other day about Cap Anson's all-time team: he left Cobb, Speaker, and Honus Wagner off of the list and included Hugh Duffy and King Kelly. LOL Ball players always pick the guys from their own era.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by Red NightYes, Josh Gibson and CF Oscar Charleston would be ranked as the greatest players in the history of the Negro Leagues...Charleston was an outfielder who was considred to be a combination of Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Babe Ruth rolled into one... he had power, incredible speed, a great throwing arm, and possessed great leadership qualities.
In the other thread we were talking aobut Josh Gibson and all of the old negro leaguers universally rank him as the greatest of all time.
Player statements are notoriously unreliable. Russell says that his Celts would have beaten the bulls. LOL! Maybe they would have, (I don't think so) but it is classic Russell.
I read something the other day abo ...[text shortened]... luded Hugh Duffy and King Kelly. LOL Ball players always pick the guys from their own era.
I actually think it would be an interesting matchup if the 90s Bulls could play the 60s Celtics...mis-matches all over the place (Russell vs. Cartwright/Longley in the middle)... Cousy vs. Kerr/Paxon...
It'd be interesting to see Jordan go against KC Jones... if they played byn 60s "rules" KC could slow him down a bit...but if they played by 90s rules, Jones would foul out in about 4 minutes 🙂
The best matchup would be Havlicek against Pippen... Scottie would be worn out trying to chase Havlicek around for 48 minutes... Of course, the Bulls could always switch Rodman over on Havlicek...
It would be funny watching Kerr trying to keep up with Cousy though..
But you're so right about players' statments about 'the good ol' days'! For some great reading on this subject, check out Bill James' Historical Abstract and his book "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame?". He presents quotes from players going back to the early 20th century, each claiming that the boys they played with were the best ever...
As one example, he quotes Charles Comiskey, in the early 20s, talking about how a "race of supermen" came to the fore in baseball during the 1870s and 1880s, and that the players of the 1920s just can't compare with them...
Bill Joyce, a star player of the 1890s, was quoted as saying that the players of the 19-teens were not as tough as the men he had played with, and that players on opposing teams were becomming too friendly with each other, while back in his day, they were mortal enemies!
Frankie Frisch, while managing from the 30s to the 50s, insisted that the players he managed couldn't compare to the men he played with in the 20s... you can imagine how his players appreciated this...
So it's no surprise at all about Anson...I can just picture him talking about his teammates 20 years later...he was a blowhard while while he was still playing, I can imagine what he must have been like when he could no longer perform on the field!
12 Dec 06
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Earlier you mentioned Hershey and yes, I knew that. It is one of my favorite trivia questions. But, I'm impressed you knew. Not many people do.
Here's another favorite.
In 1955, as a Junior, Oscar Robertson's HS team wins the indiana state championhship and becomes the first all-black team to win a state tourney anywhere in the country. In 1956, the team goes undefeated for the season and wins the tourney again.
In 1954, as a sophmore, Robertson takes his only HS tournament loss in the semi-finals of the state championship.
What team does he lose to? and why is that team significant?
EDIT: Click and drag my forum avatar up to the address bar for a hint.
13 Dec 06
Originally posted by Red NightWas that the "Hoosiers" team?
Earlier you mentioned Hershey and yes, I knew that. It is one of my favorite trivia questions. But, I'm impressed you knew. Not many people do.
Here's another favorite.
In 1955, as a Junior, Oscar Robertson's HS team wins the indiana state championhship and becomes the first all-black team to win a state tourney anywhere in the country. In 1956, ...[text shortened]... team significant?
EDIT: Click and drag my forum avatar up to the address bar for a hint.
13 Dec 06
Originally posted by Red NightTo me, the best thing about the 100 point game is the mythology surrounding it.
Earlier you mentioned Hershey and yes, I knew that. It is one of my favorite trivia questions. But, I'm impressed you knew. Not many people do...
On the 25th anniversary of the game, CBS was broadcasting an NBA game, and they did a little retrospective on that night in 1962. Players who participated in that game were interviewed, including Wilt.
None of them could remember how Wilt's final basket was scored, even Wilt wasn't really sure.
Also, there are conflicting accounts as to whether the game was actually completed after Wilt scored his last basket.
Al Attles, Wilt's teammate with the Warriors, said that the crowd was mobbing Wilt and could not be cleared from the court, so they ended the game right then and there, even though 46 seconds still showed on the clock.
But Knicks center Darrall Imhoff insisted that they did clear the court, and the game continued to the end. However, he did not remember whether anyone else scored, or whether Wilt's basket was the final basket of the game. (Some of his accounts said that Wilt actually went to the bench and sat out the final 46 seconds, accounts from other people said that Wilt just basically stayed at mid-court as the clock ran out).
To this day, I still occasionally see postings in forums on other web sites re: the 100 point game, insisting that Wilt's team lost the game. They didn't of course...they best the Knicks 169-147.
As the years went by, Chamberlain liked the fact that there is no video or film of the game. He was unhappy about that at first, but later on realized that having no video just added to the game's mystique.
Also, Wilt never considered this to be his best game, because he took 63 shots...to quote him "You take that many shots on the playground, and no one wants to be on your team ever again". Even after the game, he was stunned that he took 63 shots...Al Attles tried to console him by saying that he made 36, well over 50 per cent... Wilt just shook his head. But Wilt said there were plenty of games that he played better than this one, games in which he scored 50-60 points, and shot 75 per cent from the field.
Wilt was not really a 'gunner'...he led the NBA in scoring because he also led in field goal percentage.
Wilt also loved it when people would come up to him decades later, claiming to have been "there at Madison Square Garden, the night you scored 100 against the Knicks"... Wilt never contradicted any of them, and just let them enjoy their moment with him...over the years, thousands of people (at least 10,000 according to Wilt, but you know Wilt) said they were at the game in Hershey (attendance for that game was 4,124)
13 Dec 06
Originally posted by TheBloopThere are 2 great books out on Wilt called Wilt larger then life by Robert Cherry and The Rivalry by Bill Taylor its about Wilts rivaly with Russell Both books are very good reads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To me, the best thing about the 100 point game is the mythology surrounding it.
On the 25th anniversary of the game, CBS was broadcasting an NBA game, and they did a little retrospective on that night in 1962. Players who participated in that game were interviewed, including Wilt.
None of them could remember how Wilt's final basket was scored, even ...[text shortened]... ow Wilt) said they were at the game in Hershey (attendance for that game was 4,124)
13 Dec 06
Originally posted by richfeetGot 'em both! Great, great reads!
There are 2 great books out on Wilt called Wilt larger then life by Robert Cherry and The Rivalry by Bill Taylor its about Wilts rivaly with Russell Both books are very good reads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just picked up "Larger Than Life" a couple of weeks ago.
I also have Wilt's autobiography "Wilt: Just Like Any Other 7 Foot Black Millionaire That Lives Next Door", in paperback, published just after Wilt's retirement.
I also have his other two books, "A View From Above" (c. 1991) and "Who's Running The Asylum?" (c. 1997)...
Great reads all!
13 Dec 06
Originally posted by TheBloopYes, it is fascinating that there is no video of the game. Also, finding people who were actually there is difficult.
To me, the best thing about the 100 point game is the mythology surrounding it.
On the 25th anniversary of the game, CBS was broadcasting an NBA game, and they did a little retrospective on that night in 1962. Players who participated in that game were interviewed, including Wilt.
None of them could remember how Wilt's final basket was scored, even ...[text shortened]... ow Wilt) said they were at the game in Hershey (attendance for that game was 4,124)
It was a small court.
There is also no video of the game that is pictured in my avatar. There is video of the next game, the finals. It was the first televised High School game in the country. ESPN has shown it a couple of times. Have you seen it? At one point, Plump stands near mid-court holding the ball for over 4 minutes! Sounds a little boring, but it's actually fascinating.
On another front, thanks to all for the book recommendations.
14 Dec 06
Originally posted by OttoHahnIn the picture, there are two black players. both are tall.
One is named Willie Merriweather. The other is Oscar Robertson.
The white player is Bobby Plump. In less than 24 hours he is going to become one of the biggest heroes of his era. When they made the movie, they changed his name to Jimmy Chitwood.