Wwjd?

@pb1022 said
I got lured into your prosecutor vs. witness gotcha game.

If you don't want to bear "witness" to your own faith and your beliefs about the effect of "God’s indwelt Holy Spirit" on you, and if being asked very straightforward questions about it makes you feel "prosecuted", then so be it.

@fmf said
OK, I'll try again. You are claiming that the effect of you feeling angry online is sometimes psychologically stronger than the psychological effect that "God’s indwelt Holy Spirit" has on you, have I got it right now?

BTW, I totally disagree with your characterization of God’s Holy Spirit as a “psychological effect.”

God’s Holy Spirit is alive within a Christian and is part of the Trinity. Romans chapter 8 talks about it (among other places.)

@fmf said
If you don't want to bear "witness" to your own faith and your beliefs about the effect of "God’s indwelt Holy Spirit" on you, and if being asked very straightforward questions about it makes you feel "prosecuted", then so be it.

I’ve answered your questions and am going to bed.

@pb1022 said
BTW, I totally disagree with your characterization of God’s Holy Spirit as a “psychological effect.”

I know. You probably think it's actually a supernatural effect. That's OK. So, your stance is that the effect of you feeling angry online is sometimes psychologically stronger than the supernatural effect that "God’s indwelt Holy Spirit" has on you, right?

@fmf said
I know. You probably think it's actually a supernatural effect. That's OK. So, your stance is that the effect of you feeling angry online is sometimes psychologically stronger than the supernatural effect that "God’s indwelt Holy Spirit" has on you, right?

The fact you didn’t know you had God’s Holy Spirit within you tells me you were never saved and never a Christian.

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”

(Romans 8:16)

I’ve experienced this. Based on your inability to understand what I’m talking about, you haven’t.

And you can keep asking me the same question over and over, but I can’t explain it any better, and I frankly think you’re just looking for someone to badger and harass.

@pb1022 said
The fact you didn’t know you had God’s Holy Spirit within you tells me you were never saved and never a Christian.

Nope. You're not going to be able to make your "faith" any more coherent and convincing by referencing whatever I believed over 20 years ago. You are grasping.

@pb1022 said
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”

(Romans 8:16)

I’ve experienced this. Based on your inability to understand what I’m talking about, you haven’t.

I think you are just getting high from sniffing the fumes of the most user-friendly, do nothing, self-serving ideology that you can find.

That you need to gird your "faith" loins by talking about what I happened to believe in the 1970s 1980s, and 1990s makes you sound weak and defensive.

@pb1022 said
The fact you didn’t know you had God’s Holy Spirit within you tells me you were never saved and never a Christian.

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”

(Romans 8:16)

I’ve experienced this. Based on your inability to understand what I’m talking about, you haven’t.

And you can keep asking me the same question over and ...[text shortened]... n’t explain it any better, and I frankly think you’re just looking for someone to badger and harass.

There is a simple reason why people ask you the same question over and over. It is because your church doctrine fails to match the doctrine of the bible, and quite often people can read around the very same verse you quote and see that you are omitting critical parts of the teachings of the bible. Using that very same Romans 8 passage, here is the whole story from Paul:

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.(Romans 8:12-17 KJV)

This is the complete opposite to what you say. You cherrry-pick verses and leave out the whole teaching. That practice is deceitful and it is the reason why your words here are not trusted.

Paul addresses saved born-again Christians here, and tells them -
IF they live after the flesh they will die, but
IF they live through the Spirit they will mortify the deeds of the body and live.
That means they will not sin. Notice it is IF

This matches perfectly what Paul says all over his teachings
Christians who live in sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God
Christians who ive righteously will inherit the Kingdom of God
You teach another doctrine and your understanding of what the Holy Spirit is about is really very childish

@rajk999 said
There is a simple reason why people ask you the same question over and over. It is because your church doctrine fails to match the doctrine of the bible, and quite often people can read around the very same verse you quote and see that you are omitting critical parts of the teachings of the bible. Using that very same Romans 8 passage, here is the whole story from Paul:

[i ...[text shortened]... ach another doctrine and your understanding of what the Holy Spirit is about is really very childish

You obviously haven’t read what I’ve written in this thread.

Every Christian will occasionally slip up and sin and stumble and fall. The Apostle Paul wrote about his own struggles with doing what’s right and not doing what’s wrong in Romans 7 and wrote about the struggle between the Spirit and the flesh in Galatians.

But no Christian lives a life of sin or has sinning as their default (or normal) mode. Not, though, because of self-effort because self-effort doesn’t prevent people from sinning. Communing with God through His Word and prayer, however, strengthens the Holy Spirit within a believer and enables him to live righteously.

@fmf said
I think you are just getting high from sniffing the fumes of the most user-friendly, do nothing, self-serving ideology that you can find.

That you need to gird your "faith" loins by talking about what I happened to believe in the 1970s 1980s, and 1990s makes you sound weak and defensive.

Not at all.

You (and rajk999) and many others falsely think once a Christian obtains salvation, he or she will do nothing and will live a life of sin. You can’t imagine someone doing good works and doing their best to keep the commandments out of love and gratitude for God and not because of the threat of punishment.

You know nothing about what I do to fulfill Galatians 6:2 in real life. I can assure you, it’s not nothing. But I don’t do it out of a fear of going to hell. I do it from love and gratitude for all God has done for me.

And I only wrote about what you used to believe because of your inability to understand what I was talking about in regard to God’s Holy Spirit indwelling a believer.

But I fail to see why it matters to you if you were or were not a Christian since you’re now an atheist. If I used to believe in rainbow-colored hippos and someone told me I didn’t, I wouldn’t insist that I did. In fact, I’d be embarrassed to admit that I did.

@pb1022 said
If I used to believe in rainbow-colored hippos

Did you?

@fmf said
Nope. You're not going to be able to make your "faith" any more coherent and convincing by referencing whatever I believed over 20 years ago. You are grasping.

I only mention this because of your inability to understand what I’m talking about.

But I don’t see whether you were or were not a Christian matters to you since you’re now an atheist.

@pb1022 said
You obviously haven’t read what I’ve written in this thread.

Every Christian will occasionally slip up and sin and stumble and fall. The Apostle Paul wrote about his own struggles with doing what’s right and not doing what’s wrong in Romans 7 and wrote about the struggle between the Spirit and the flesh in Galatians.

But no Christian lives a life of sin or has sinning as ...[text shortened]... prayer, however, strengthens the Holy Spirit within a believer and enables him to live righteously.

There are 3 kinds of information here
1 what the bible says
2 what you say
3 what your church says

I think people here are only interested in 1. Your post is full of 2 and 3, and nobody really is interested in that. Especially comments like .. no Christian lives a life of sin .., which you have repeatedly made, and you are repeatedly ignored, where you claim to know the lives of the billions of Christians from Christ to now, just makes you look really very stupid, and an unreliable source of bible doctrine.

@rajk999 said
There are 3 kinds of information here
1 what the bible says
2 what you say
3 what your church says

I think people here are only interested in 1. Your post is full of 2 and 3, and nobody really is interested in that. Especially comments like .. no Christian lives a life of sin .., which you have repeatedly made, and you are repeatedly ignored, where you claim to ...[text shortened]... Christ to now, just makes you look really very stupid, and an unreliable source of bible doctrine.

Have you read Romans 7 and Galatians?

Do you know how sins are forgiven?

You believe a Christian can live a life of sin because you don’t know and don’t understand the power of God’s Holy Spirit in changing the heart of a believer.

@pb1022 said
Not at all.

You (and rajk999) and many others falsely think once a Christian obtains salvation, he or she will do nothing and will live a life of sin. You can’t imagine someone doing good works and doing their best to keep the commandments out of love and gratitude for God and not because of the threat of punishment.

You know nothing about what I do to fulfill Galatians ...[text shortened]... one told me I didn’t, I wouldn’t insist that I did. In fact, I’d be embarrassed to admit that I did.

NO 2