09 Aug 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeAnd there is nothing for us to celebrate about, knowing that you will one day wish you had listened more closely to us when you finally have no more time left.
You have evidently failed to either read or understand any of the hundred or so posts in which I
explain exactly what the problem is.
First, it's a threat because YOU [and/or whoever is making the threat] believes it to be true.
Regardless of whether it's actually true, or I/we believe it.
Second, Many atheists are deconverted theists [many ex-C ...[text shortened]... onally are threatening me.
The fact that I know the threat is empty doesn't change that fact.
We would not be Christian if we left you to face your end without our warning. There IS still time to turn back now. That you simply choose not to believe us doesn't change the gravitas of our commission to help our fellow man, our neighbors, to escape what we know awaits them.
"First, it's a threat because YOU [and/or whoever is making the threat] believes it to be true. Regardless of whether it's actually true, or I/we believe it."
Beyond your circular reasoning that "It's a threat because it's a threat", I'm not sure how this works exactly. Since when is a warning a "threat"? I mean, I suppose it could be, if you're that insecure in your belief that it is not true. It almost seems like you're willing to drive off that bridge up ahead just because you don't want us to be right, and not driving fast because you know the bridge is not out.
Originally posted by FMFI would submit that calling it a "fear" tactic, when in fact there is no fear, is a "fear" tactic in and of itself. And yeah, that's being melodramatic.
"Fear" is indisputably what the 'torturer God' ideology seeks to create. There is no harm in using the word. Indeed, untold numbers of Christians feel this "fear". The fact that critics of the ideology don't, doesn't mean the word is not appropriate.
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09 Aug 15
Originally posted by FMFAbsolutely this.
"Fear" is indisputably what the 'torturer God' ideology seeks to create. There is no harm in using the word. Indeed, untold numbers of Christians feel this "fear". The fact that critics of the ideology don't, doesn't mean the word is not appropriate.
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09 Aug 15
Originally posted by Suzianne
And there is nothing for us to celebrate about, knowing that you will one day wish you had listened more closely to us when you finally have no more time left.
We would not be Christian if we left you to face your end without our warning. There IS still time to turn back now. That you simply choose not to believe us doesn't change the gravitas of our c ...[text shortened]... s to be right, and not driving fast because you know the bridge is not out.
And there is nothing for us to celebrate about, knowing that you will one day wish you had listened more
closely to us when you finally have no more time left.
We would not be Christian if we left you to face your end without our warning.
And this is one of the reasons there will always be antagonism between theists, and atheists.
[and between differing theists]
Your religion compels you to do and think and say things I/we find objectionable, immoral, offensive, etc.
"knowing that you will one day wish you had listened more closely to us"
You don't know this. I wouldn't wish such a thing even if your god did turn out to exist.
Even if you wont accept that you cannot know that your god is real, you should be able to
accept that you cannot know how I, or anyone else, would react to finding out that it exists.
I suppose it could be, if you're that insecure in your belief that it is not true.
How many times do I have to tell you that I am absolutely secure in my knowledge that neither your god nor
any sort of afterlife exists?
It almost seems like you're willing to drive off that bridge up ahead just because you don't want
us to be right, and not driving fast because you know the bridge is not out.
Well in my case [and this is by no means universally applicable to all, or probably most atheists] I
don't 'want' you to be right because your god if real would be an evil abomination.
However, I value the truth over what I 'want' to be true. I would rather like it to be true that FTL travel is
possible, there are occasions where I would rather like their to be magic in the world. However it's
most likely that FTL is impossible, and magic is almost completely certainly impossible and non-existent.
I accept that this is so, and act accordingly.
If I actually gained proof of your gods existence then I would not deny that your god exists.
I would however immediately begin planning to destroy/defeat it.
I don't want to find out that there is an afterlife in which I am supposed to spend an eternity doing anything,
let alone kissing your gods ass for all time.
Faced with a choice between your heaven and non-existence, I choose non-existence.
However I would like to make as much a go of this existence as possible [and with current technological trends
multiple millennia or more seems perfectly possible] without your god turning up and destroying everything on a whim.
Which is what you apparently believe will probably happen within our lifetimes.
Originally posted by SuzianneYou honestly believe that humans are not supposed to "fear" the fate that many Christians claim is in store for them if they die unbelievers?
I would submit that calling it a "fear" tactic, when in fact there is no fear, is a "fear" tactic in and of itself. And yeah, that's being melodramatic.
Originally posted by SuzianneSo do you disagree with sonship then, when he says that "the fear of eternal suffering is a legitimate mechanism for bringing people to Christ"?
I would submit that calling it a "fear" tactic, when in fact there is no fear, is a "fear" tactic in and of itself. And yeah, that's being melodramatic.
Originally posted by Suzianne"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:" (2 Timothy 1: 7-10)
Yes, but calling it "fear" is just more than a little melodramatic, don't you think?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDo you believe that Christian fear mongering ~ by those Christians who subscribe to the torturer God ideology, that is ~ can somehow make someone choose to believe something that they, in fact, simply do not find credible?
"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but acco ...[text shortened]... d death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:" (2 Timothy 1: 7-10)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDo you believe "an eternity alone"/eternal torture in the "Lake of Fire" are fates that ought to be feared?
God doesn't [want to scare folk into doing something]. He provides a way of escape from an eternity alone separated from Him. Accept it or reject it. Choice is yours.