… think that an angel had authority to contradict a prior command given directly by God? [Gen. 22] Especially considering that another angel had once tempted someone to disobey one of God's commands and it had dire consequences, not only for the person so tempted, but for all mankind for all time. Hard to trust an angel, after that.
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@moonbus saidExodus 3:2
… think that an angel had authority to contradict a prior command given directly by God? [Gen. 22] Especially considering that another angel had once tempted someone to disobey one of God's commands and it had dire consequences, not only for the person so tempted, but for all mankind for all time. Hard to trust an angel, after that.
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And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
God uses angels to speak for Him throughout the OT and the NT. That is a good question I have to say, it is one I had not thought about. I would think, off the cuff that if God is speaking through the angel, that is quite different than an angel speaking relaying a message. So a distinction could be made by the hearer.
@moonbus saidCan you post the texts you are referring to please.
… think that an angel had authority to contradict a prior command given directly by God? [Gen. 22] Especially considering that another angel had once tempted someone to disobey one of God's commands and it had dire consequences, not only for the person so tempted, but for all mankind for all time. Hard to trust an angel, after that.
Comments?
Just some interesting scriptures on the angels:
Just as God is a Spirit, angels too are invisible spirits who do “not have flesh and bones.” The loyal angels reside in the heavens and have direct access to God’s heavenly presence.—Luke 24:39; Matthew 18:10; John 4:24.
Angels have at times appeared in human form to care for God-given assignments on earth and then dematerialized after completing their assignments.—Judges 6:11-23; 13:15-20.
Although angels are presented in the Bible as males and have always materialized as males, there is no male or female distinction among them. They do not marry and reproduce their own kind. Moreover, angels did not first come into existence as humans on earth—whether as babies, children, or adults. Angels were created by Jehovah; thus the Bible calls them “sons of the true God.”—Job 1:6; Psalm 148:2, 5.
The Bible speaks of “the tongues of men and of angels,” indicating that spirit persons have language and speech. Although God has used angels to communicate with humans, he does not permit us to worship angels or pray to them.—1 Corinthians 13:1; Revelation 22:8, 9.
There are myriads upon myriads of angels, perhaps numbering into the billions. *—Daniel 7:10; Revelation 5:11.
Angels are “mighty in power”—much more powerful than humans—and they have superhuman intelligence. They evidently can travel at tremendous speeds, far exceeding the limits of the physical world.—Psalm 103:20; Daniel 9:20-23.
Despite their higher mental and spiritual powers, angels have limitations, and there are some things they do not know.—Matthew 24:36; 1 Peter 1:12.
Angels were created with personalities, divine qualities, and free will. Hence, like humans, they can choose to do right or wrong. Sadly, some angels chose to rebel against God.—Jude 6.
A few more scriptures:
The archangel, Michael, is the chief angel in terms of power and authority. The Scriptures clearly indicate that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ.—1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 9.
Seraphs rank very high among the angels in privileges and honor, and they are in attendance around God’s throne.—Isaiah 6:1-3.
Cherubs too have high rank and care for special responsibilities that are intimately associated with the Almighty’s glorious personage. They are often shown to be in attendance upon him.—Genesis 3:24; Ezekiel 9:3; 11:22.
The myriads of other angelic messengers serve as the Most High’s agents and deputies in carrying out the divine will. *—Hebrews 1:7, 14.
@moonbus saidOh yes. Most all serve Jehovah very loyally.
… think that an angel had authority to contradict a prior command given directly by God? [Gen. 22] Especially considering that another angel had once tempted someone to disobey one of God's commands and it had dire consequences, not only for the person so tempted, but for all mankind for all time. Hard to trust an angel, after that.
Comments?
I suppose the overall question of this thread is when do you listen to an angel and when do you not.
Accordingly to Galatians if the angel brings a message other than the gospel, ignore the angel. Jesus said something similar by saying judge fruits.
Of course yhis advice is meaninhless to moonbus and other spiritually blind people around here since they can not tell the difference between a message from God and a message from Satan.
@moonbus said(1) God did not allow Satan to appear as an angel, but he appeared as a snake.
… think that an angel had authority to contradict a prior command given directly by God? [Gen. 22] Especially considering that another angel had once tempted someone to disobey one of God's commands and it had dire consequences, not only for the person so tempted, but for all mankind for all time. Hard to trust an angel, after that.
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(2) Abraham had faith that he would be prevented in the end, I believe, as he went through the entire process. It was a long, elaborate process, and not a short one, which I think was going to make evident what was happening.
It is also often stated that he believed that Isaac would be raised up through the dead, because another promise was actually made to Abraham: that he would have countless descendants through Isaac.
There's really a lot happening in this story and many people have tackled it over the centuries.
My favorite that I have come across that tries to cover it from an emotional and "existential" perspective would be Soren Kierkegaard's bit.
@eladar saidIt doesn't.
@Philokalia
Where does the Bible state that Satan is not allowed to look like an angel?
Satan appeared as a talking snake to Adam & Eve, which is presumably a grounds for Adam & Eve to directly disobey him, right?
If, say, Satan had appeared as an angel, in all of the glory of GOd, it would be hard to blame Adam & Eve for disobeying him as they are the first humans and in a vulnerable position, right?
At least, that's the logic behind my statement.
@Philokalia
God was not using messengers then, at least no mention of angels that I recall.
@eladar saidIn the Bible, in Genesis, they use the form "we." As in, Genesis 1:26:
@Philokalia
God was not using messengers then, at least no mention of angels that I recall.
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
This is used to suggest that God is referring to the Trinity in the Old Testament sometimes, but it is also used to show that the angels predate man.
Angel itself means messenger if I correctly remember the Greek... So, lit., if 'us' refers to God beyond the Trinity in any way (which would be the most favorable interpretation for Jewish and Muslim people, and also the preferred interpretation when atheists feel like poking Christians about the trinity), it would refer to the angels at the very, very beginning of everything, in the first book of the Bible.
... And as you stated: Satan is in the garden of Eden, and satan is an angel. Demons are the fallen angels, after all.
@moonbus saidPerhaps Abraham became aware that he'd failed the test at that point.
… think that an angel had authority to contradict a prior command given directly by God? [Gen. 22] Especially considering that another angel had once tempted someone to disobey one of God's commands and it had dire consequences, not only for the person so tempted, but for all mankind for all time. Hard to trust an angel, after that.
Comments?