30 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnethis again is a very partially sighted answer, for not only Paul, but the ancient Bible writers themselves stated that 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. to what extent are you willing to go, to simply dismiss this fact, Paul words?, the ancient Bible writers?, David's words, Daniels words, Jeremiahs words, thus the folly is evident ? Did not Paul state that all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching and reproving, setting things straight , that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. Yet it seems to me that you have elevated certain aspects of scripture above those of others and thus are unable to make the reconciliation. Until you can do this, all attempts at reasoning with you shall prove to be futile, for the foundation upon which you build is a shaky one indeed.
The teachings of Paul contradict the teachings of Jesus, so of course they do not cohere.
From what I can tell, you and others "reconcile" them by distorting the teachings of Jesus.
If you can reconcile them without changing what Jesus explicitly states, then here's your chance to do so.
30 Aug 09
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMuch of what was attributed to the ancients was not righteous as Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the Sermon on the Mount.
this again is a very partially sighted answer, for not only Paul, but the ancient Bible writers themselves stated that 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. to what extent are you willing to go, to simply dismiss this fact, Paul words?, the ancient Bible writers?, David's words, Daniels words, Jeremiahs words, thus the folly is eviden ...[text shortened]... you shall prove to be futile, for the foundation upon which you build is a shaky one indeed.
That said, even the one example you cite does not prove your point. 'All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' does not necessarily mean man is incapable of stopping from committing sin. It only means that all men have sinned at least once their lives.
Once again:
From what I can tell, you and others "reconcile" them by distorting the teachings of Jesus.
If you can reconcile them without changing what Jesus explicitly states, then here's your chance to do so.
Yet it seems to me that you have elevated certain aspects of scripture above those of others and thus are unable to make the reconciliation. Until you can do this, all attempts at reasoning with you shall prove to be futile, for the foundation upon which you build is a shaky one indeed.
Interesting that you bring up foundations. Let's see what Jesus had to say about foundations:
46 "Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49 But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great."
According to Jesus a strong foundation is built by those who have heard HIS words and acted on them. The shaky foundation is built by those who have heard HIS words and NOT acted on them.
It is the words of Jesus that are the key to building a strong foundation. Not the words of Paul, ancient Bible writers, David, Daniel or Jeremiah, but the words of Jesus.
Who is this Jesus guy anyway? And why should anyone choose to place His words above those of anyone else?
30 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnethis is once again pure folly, either the ancients were inspired of God or they were not, either Paul wrote under inspiration from Gods holy spirit, or he did not. And you are wrong with regard to the ancients, for it was their insistence on interpretation that had made the word of God invalid, not the actual word itself.
Much of what was attributed to the ancients was not righteous as Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the Sermon on the Mount.
That said, even the one example you cite does not prove your point. 'All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' does not necessarily mean man is incapable of stopping from committing sin. It only means that all men have s words of Paul, ancient Bible writers, David, Daniel or Jeremiah, but the words of Jesus.
30 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieTry reading and comprehending my previous post.
this is once again pure folly, either the ancients were inspired of God or they were not, either Paul wrote under inspiration from Gods holy spirit, or he did not. And you are wrong with regard to the ancients, for it was their insistence on interpretation that had made the word of God invalid, not the actual word itself.
30 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnei read it, i understood it, it is folly as i have pointed out, try reading and comprehending what other people have also written. You have no answers as to why one should dismiss either the words of the ancient writers, nor Paul, for the scriptures themselves state, they wrote under inspiration, and please refrain from condescension, it is neither mannerly nor becoming., nor Christian for that matter.
Try reading and comprehending my previous post.
30 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou have no answers as to why one should dismiss either the words of the ancient writers, nor Paul, for the scriptures themselves state, they wrote under inspiration
i read it, i understood it, it is folly as i have pointed out, try reading and comprehending what other people have also written. You have no answers as to why one should dismiss either the words of the ancient writers, nor Paul, for the scriptures themselves state, they wrote under inspiration, and please refrain from condescension, it is neither mannerly nor becoming., nor Christian for that matter.
Evidently you missed the following:
Much of what was attributed to the ancients was not righteous as Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the Sermon on the Mount.
Interesting that you bring up foundations. Let's see what Jesus had to say about foundations:
46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47 Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49 But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great."
According to Jesus a strong foundation is built by those who have heard HIS words and acted on them. The shaky foundation is built by those who have heard HIS words and NOT acted on them.
It is the words of Jesus that are the key to building a strong foundation. Not the words of Paul, ancient Bible writers, David, Daniel or Jeremiah, but the words of Jesus.
please refrain from condescension, it is neither mannerly nor becoming., nor Christian for that matter.
Let me see try to understand this. When I said, "Try reading and comprehending my previous post" it is "condescension". When you said, "try reading and comprehending what other people have also written", in this very post, it is not "condescension". I wonder if there's a word for this type of double standard.
30 Aug 09
3 edits
Much of what was attributed to the ancients was not righteous as Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the Sermon on the Mount.
this was also addressed, did you perhaps miss the reference to interpretations? in that it is well understood that what Christ was referring to was the misapplication of the Law, or are you unaware that the Jews held the so called 'oral law', in higher esteem than the written law, and had added to it, so that it became a burden, thus what we have is two interpretations, the Jews were unable to get the sense of the Law because of their interpretation, you likewise are unable also to get the sense of scripture because of yours, now that is interesting, for it led them to an extremely self righteous attitude. coincidence?
31 Aug 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI'm back and sorry for missing all of this. I see he still hasn't said if he's a sinner or not. Oh well....
[b] You have no answers as to why one should dismiss either the words of the ancient writers, nor Paul, for the scriptures themselves state, they wrote under inspiration
Evidently you missed the following:
[i]Much of what was attributed to the ancients was not righteous as Jesus repeatedly pointed out in the Sermon on the Mount.
Interesting tha ...[text shortened]... not "condescension". I wonder if there's a word for this type of double standard.[/b]
31 Aug 09
The only way you can be saved from hell is for God to save you from it.
You can't 'do' anything, nor would you even be inclined to if you could.
God did everything you need for salvation by coming in person to earth as Jesus and dying for you on the cross. That's it. Done. Finished.
How do you understand what Jesus' sacrifice on the cross means for you?
God does it. (usually by sending someone to tell you).
How do you put your faith in the cross, and trust it entirely for your salvation from hell?
God does it. (Our faith in him is a gift from him, by the Holy Spirit convicting our unregenerate hearts).
How do you then live from that moment on, and endure to the end, and summon up the works that are the fruit of true saving faith?
God does it.
Resisting sin, crucifying the flesh, discerning the world's errors, perservering to the end, are not human works. It is God working in us. And once again, everything is through Jesus, on the cross.
Jesus, on the cross, is the only way God deals with the human race.
Anything else besides that is not from God.
Call upon the name of the Lord, and you will be saved.
31 Aug 09
Originally posted by brisbaneboywhat is the name of the Lord?
The only way you can be saved from hell is for God to save you from it.
You can't 'do' anything, nor would you even be inclined to if you could.
God did everything you need for salvation by coming in person to earth as Jesus and dying for you on the cross. That's it. Done. Finished.
How do you understand what Jesus' sacrifice on the cross mea ...[text shortened]... se besides that is not from God.
Call upon the name of the Lord, and you will be saved.
31 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeester(1) We all sin (mental, covert, overt sins) because we yield to temptations from our Adamic sinful natures. (2) Sin, though, isn't the issue for an unbeliever. The Father's Justice was satisfied when He judged sin once and for all during the Son's substitutionary spiritual death (separation from the Father) during the final three hours of His crucifixion. (3) Only issue is "What do you think of Christ?"
Pretend you have 2 minutes to explain salvation to an enquiring unbeliever. What are the key facts assuming the person has the ability to believe what you say - what indeed would you say. A question to all faiths and denominations especially:
> Mormons
> Jehovah Witnesses
> Muslims
I'm looking for straight forward but all encompassing respo ...[text shortened]... ave to believe, and what if anything should I do to prevent myself going to hell?
Thank you.
(4) In the NT Koine Greek 'metanoia' or repentance means a change of mind. (5) Faith alone in Christ alone, at a point in time, instantly results in salvation and the assurance of a personal relationship with God in time and for all eternity in Heaven. Rejection of Christ, the 'unpardonable sin', results in separation from God for all eternity (and immediate residence in a compartment of Hades named Torments at physical death and the Lake of Fire following the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the Millennium).
(6) At that judgement, personal sin won't even be mentioned. It's already been judged. Names of all unbelievers have been deleted from the 'Lamb's Book of Life'. Thet's why a second book is opened... 'The Book of Works. No matter how many good works an individual may accomplish during a lifetime on earth, they only add up to Human Righteousness. Religion is man doing the work. Christ already did the work. To spend eternity with God requires Divine Righteousness, which is imputed at the moment of belief in Christ.
(7) So, Dive, there's only one responsible course of action. Use the '2 minutes' to present the facts accurately. If the grace gift of everlasting life is accepted, the Holy Spirit does the rest of the work. Faith alone in Christ alone is salvation! The choice is yours.
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