Was Mars rendered uninhabitable by "Satan"?

@suzianne said
Let me get this straight. You think most of what sonship says in this forum is waffle, or made-up, or whatever, but you still think that he's not a good enough Christian, or else he would be on the street corner yelling this same "waffle" or "made-up" stuff to random people to "save" them?

Here it is, straight, Suzianne. His choices as a man who claims to have knowledge of what is going to happen to people after they die if they don't share [more or less] his beliefs, are, to me, suggestive of him not actually believing the stuff he claims to know about what is going to happen to people after they die.

@suzianne said
What kind of argument is that, especially on top of your other arguments with him?

I think it's the kind of argument that you won't engage on any level.

@sonship said
I notice that like to play the narcissism card a lot lately. Maybe you think if you're not sure what you believe then you have no ego problem. Maybe you think if you're perptually on the fence that shows you are no narcissist.

Sorry FMF. You're being uncommitted and soliciting "Thoughts?" when you throw out a topic is no iron clad proof you don't love your self a w ...[text shortened]... ce with your own narcicistic ego.

I expect the "Why sonship whatever could you mean?" move next.

All this stuff you have put in your reply does not really address what I have put to you.

It's fine by me if you call me narcissistic. I don't mind. I am not trying to convert anyone to a religion.

Which makes you different from me. You see yourself as having a ministry. You see yourself as seeking to "save" people from "eternal damnation".

So, the issue of your narcissism certainly is significant... if it hamstrings your ministry.

@FMF

Which makes you different from me. You see yourself as having a ministry. You see yourself as seeking to "save" people from "eternal damnation".

So, the issue of your narcissism certainly is significant... if it hamstrings your ministry.

I believe in the universal priesthood of the believer.
Every Christian believer shares in THE ministry.

Maybe you have in mind a clergy / laity type "ministry" in your complaint.

And die hard atheists advizing Christians on what "hamstrings their ministry" is, well, suspect to just a tiny bit of bias.

Now, to the question you posed I will re-examine. Not so much for your sake to perpetually bicker with one who I know is not interested. Someone wondering how one would reply, I will write on that possible reader's benefit.

@sonship said
And die hard atheists advizing Christians on what "hamstrings their ministry" is, well, suspect to just a tiny bit of bias.

Your narcissism either hamstrings your ministry or it does not.

@FMF

If your "heart" tells you such a thing is true and you profess the belief to others, what does this achieve in terms of validating or explaining the other beliefs that you hold?

Maybe nothing at all.
It may depend on the listener.

I remember when I was seeking for answers I would look intensely into the eyes of certain people, not to intimidate them at all. But I was asking myself "Does he REALLY believe that? Is he being honest with me that he REALLY has that belief?"

But for plenty of people sincerity or others' heart telling them this or that means nothing much.

What does someone saying "Oh you're just a narcissist!" do for validating someone's padlocked mind to decide "God is the enemy of ME?"

@sonship said
I remember when I was seeking for answers I would look intensely into the eyes of certain people, not to intimidate them at all. But I was asking myself "Does he REALLY believe that? Is he being honest with me that he REALLY has that belief?"

Do you think you think the credibility of your "Satan on Mars" belief and the credibility of your belief in the "Doctrine of Atonement" are equal?

Does your "Satan on Mars" belief make you a more or less credible proponent of your "Doctrine of Atonement" belief?

@sonship said
What does someone saying "Oh you're just a narcissist!" do for validating someone's padlocked mind to decide "God is the enemy of ME?"

You have said "Oh you're just a narcissist!" to me more times than I can remember. What does it "do" in terms of "validating" anything when you do it?

To the issue FMF has raised.

It is conceivable to me (though I am not certain now) that one day the history of the creation will become very clear in its simplicity. The first two verses of Genesis (verses 1 and 2) indicate to me a Destruction / Reconstruction past.

Only verse 1 speaks of the absolute creation of the heavens and the earth.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (v1)

The next verse in some English translations bring out the strong Hebrew language implication that what follows is a scene following a judgment of God upon a previous system.

"But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep." (v2 Recovery Version)

G.H. Pember points out that the play on words in the Hebrew for "waste and emptiness" represents a style of prose used elsewhere to indicate a divine judgment has taken place rendering what was judged wasted, empty, void, under destruction.

"Now these words are found together only in two other passages, in both of which they are clearly used to express the ruin caused by an outpouring of the wrath of God.

In a prophecy of Isaiah, after a fearful description of the fall of Idumea in the day of vengence, we find the expression, "He shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones - or, as it should be translated, the plummet - of emptiness" (Isa. xxxiv. II). [sic] Now "confusion" and "emptiness" are in the Hebrew, the same words as those rendered "without form, and void." And the sense is, that just as the architect makes careful use of line and plummet in order to raise the building in perfection, so will the Lord to make the ruin complete. "

[Earth's Earliest Ages, G.H. Pember, Revell, pg. 31]

MAYBE, in my view, we will one day realize the more than just the earth was judged and rendered waste and void. MAYBE we who have been granted the gift of eternal life will come to understand that this judgment was wider spread that we presently comprehend.

I could not insist on this with certainty.

@FMF

What does it "do" in terms of "validating" anything when you do it?

What does your whining followed by a question mark EVER do but display you like to pose leading questions?

@sonship said
The next time you see a photograph of the surface of the planet Mars. Check your eyes and your heart.
I wager that you stare at that picture of the desolate planet's surface searching for something that reminds you of earth, life, man's world.
I wager that that is the intuitive sense in your heart that creation was arrange for human life. It just seems without this the plan ...[text shortened]... th life support systems like water, gravity, vegetation, clouds, rain, green, other lives . . . etc.

Where do you get this type of idea from sonship?

@FMF

Do you think you think the credibility of your "Satan on Mars" belief and the credibility of your belief in the "Doctrine of Atonement" are equal?

"Satan on Mars" (with its capital letters) appears what you want to announce to everybody here that I dogmatically taught. I speculated (without dogmatic insistence) that perhaps the previous order of things under the first ruler God appointed stretched beyond just this earth.

As for the credibility of the atonement of Christ?

Much of this credibility is due to the power of the personality of the man who demonstrated this is WHY He came. That is the power of the personality of Jesus Christ.

Does this reconciling man to God extend further than this earth in its effect? I would say YES based upon Paul's teaching that the WHOLE CREATION groans in expectation of the manifestation of the sons of God. The whole creation was subject to vanity. Well, if the whole creation was subject to vanity, then the effect of this subjection extends to the whole of creation somehow.

Romans 8:19-23 speaks of all creation (which would mean the heavens and the earth) are in a state of corruption.

"For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God.

For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it,

In hope that creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.

And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firtfruits of the Spirit, even we oursleves groan in oursleves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body."

Review: I posed no formal "Satan on Mars" dogmatic doctrine. I mused about the fact that maybe more than just the earth planet was judged.

In Revelation God creates NOT JUST - a new earth. He creates a new heaven and a new earth.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more." (Rev. 21:1)

It COULD have said God will create a new earth and the old heavens need no new creating. Its at least something to think about to me.

The Apostle Peter also speaks of the new heaven and new earth in which righteousness dwells. Maybe the unrighteousness of Satan's rebellion effected and touched not only the earth but the heavens too.

"But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which righeousness dwells." ( 2 Pet. 3:13)

What does your whining followed by a question mark EVER do but display you like to pose leading questions?

Why are you immediately trying to distance yourself from what you said?

@sonship said
"Satan on Mars" (with its capital letters) appears what you want to announce to everybody here that I dogmatically taught.

No, I haven't "announced" that you have "dogmatically taught" it. Stop making things up. Just address what I say. And this is what I said:

If your "heart" tells you such a thing [the Mars thing] is true and you profess the belief to others, what does this achieve in terms of validating or explaining the other - dare I say, more important - beliefs that you hold?