30 Aug 19
@dj2becker saidIn order for truth to be absolute and holding these qualities, it must be grounded in a source that is personal, unchanging, and sovereign over all of creation.
Truth that is defined as being absolute, possesses the following qualities.
• Truth is discovered not invented
• Truth is transcultural: it can be conveyed across different cultures.
• Truth is unchanging: it can be conveyed across time.
• Beliefs cannot change a truth statement no matter how sincere one may be
• Truth is unaffected by the attitude of the one profess ...[text shortened]... ee or disagree with and why?
https://evidenceandanswers.org/article/truth-absolute-or-relative/
How is this necessarily true?
30 Aug 19
@thinkofone saidConcerning unchanging that would mean truth will be truth across all time and space. It will not become a lie later or just an opinion.
In order for truth to be absolute and holding these qualities, it must be grounded in a source that is personal, unchanging, and sovereign over all of creation.
How is this necessarily true?
30 Aug 19
@thinkofone saidI guess that would depend on what he was talking about. A truth, or an absolute can be more than a thing, so he would have to be a little more specific. Wouldn't you agree?
"unchanging" was a given.
What about the rest of it?
30 Aug 19
@kellyjay saidWhat the writer as talking about was stated in the OP. Perhaps you should read it again.
I guess that would depend on what he was talking about. A truth, or an absolute can be more than a thing, so he would have to be a little more specific. Wouldn't you agree?
30 Aug 19
• Truth is discovered not invented
Correct.
• Truth is transcultural: it can be conveyed across different cultures.
Yes.
• Truth is unchanging: it can be conveyed across time.
Yes.
• Beliefs cannot change a truth statement no matter how sincere one may be
Correct.
• Truth is unaffected by the attitude of the one professing it
Correct.
• All Truths are absolute
Yes.
• Truth is knowable
No, not always.
The truth is something that we can generally get at as humans through various systems and devices, but there is no real way to know and understand everything that is true or not.
Very good post.
30 Aug 19
OK, so what do we do with general "truths" that have some exceptions?
For example: "It is wrong to kill a person." - except, perhaps, in self-defense.
But then, to go the whole distance, and produce a statement that is OBJECTIVELY true in ALL cases, you must consider even the most ridiculous hypothetical cases, because the world ALL admits no exceptions.
For example, "It is wrong to kill a person, unless it is in self-defense, unless you and your attacker are the last two human males on earth, and only he is fertile." Silly? Sure, it sounds silly. But the ALL scenario makes all of that admissible as counter-arguments.
So, some of you may say, 'so what? There is absolute truth, no matter how complicated the exceptions may be.' Well, yes, you might be right, but it is certainly no longer the pristine thing you had imagined it to be. It is not a pithy set of commandments that fit neatly on stone tablets. It is certainly not something an average human mind can fully appreciate.
30 Aug 19
@bigdoggproblem saidThe two great commandments come to mind.
OK, so what do we do with general "truths" that have some exceptions?
For example: "It is wrong to kill a person." - except, perhaps, in self-defense.
But then, to go the whole distance, and produce a statement that is OBJECTIVELY true in ALL cases, you must consider even the most ridiculous hypothetical cases, because the world ALL admits no exceptions.
For e ...[text shortened]... t neatly on stone tablets. It is certainly not something an average human mind can fully appreciate.
30 Aug 19
@kellyjay said#2 of those is, IIRC, "love thy neighbor as thy self".
The two great commandments come to mind.
However, say you are a person with poor self esteem and you do not actually love yourself. Would that not be an exception to #2?
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30 Aug 19
@suzianne saidTruth by definition should be non contradictory as I see it. So if my ‘truth’ contradicts your ‘truth’ we can’t both be right can we? And I’m not talking about opinions here. For example if person A believes that God exists and person B believes God doesn’t exist, it’s not possible for both of their beliefs to be true at the same time is it?
YOUR truth, or THEIR truth?
Usually, all one cares about is their own truth (calling it 'absolute' or some rubbish), and all other truth is rendered as 'not-truth' in their mind.
It's this kind of thing that leads to wars, to murder, to all kinds of evil. Because to some people, there MUST be a dichotomy in order to hold up THEIR truth as 'true', and all others as 'false'.
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30 Aug 19
@thinkofone saidHow is it not necessarily true?
In order for truth to be absolute and holding these qualities, it must be grounded in a source that is personal, unchanging, and sovereign over all of creation.
How is this necessarily true?
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30 Aug 19
@philokalia saidObviously not all truths are knowable by everyone. But certainly some truths can be known?• Truth is discovered not invented
Correct.
• Truth is transcultural: it can be conveyed across different cultures.
Yes.
• Truth is unchanging: it can be conveyed across time.
Yes.
• Beliefs cannot change a truth statement no matter how sincere one may be
Correct.
[quote]• Truth is una ...[text shortened]... but there is no real way to know and understand everything that is true or not.
Very good post.
30 Aug 19
@dj2becker saidif person A believes that God exists and person B believes God doesn’t exist
Truth by definition should be non contradictory as I see it. So if my ‘truth’ contradicts your ‘truth’ we can’t both be right can we? And I’m not talking about opinions here. For example if person A believes that God exists and person B believes God doesn’t exist, it’s not possible for both of their beliefs to be true at the same time is it?
Both person A's belief/opinion [that God exists] and person B's belief/opinion [that God doesn't exist] are subjective.
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@fmf saidSure but only one and not both of their opinions can ultimately be true. The concept of ultimate truth is really only compatible with God’s existence if you think about it.
if person A believes that God exists and person B believes God doesn’t exist
Both person A's belief/opinion [that God exists] and person B's belief/opinion [that God doesn't exist] are subjective.
@dj2becker saidYou can recite or type out your "only one and not both of their opinions can ultimately be true" word-string as often as you want, and if it makes you feel more certain about your personal opinions, so be it, but your perspective is still a subjective one.
Sure but only one and not both of their opinions can ultimately be true.