Truth- Absolute or Relative?

@dj2becker said
And you know all this with absolute certainty? Who could have guessed.

Everything both of us are saying on this matter is subjective.

@kellyjay said
When you think everything that is really true is only true because you say so,

You think Christianity is "true", you keep saying so, my Muslim colleague thinks Islam is "true", he says so, and I have a Hindu friend who thinks Hinduism is "true" and no doubt says so when she feels the need to. All of you are being subjective. No matter how certain any of you are, that certainty does not transform your personal opinions into "absolute truths".

@kellyjay said
The lie at the beginning is still spread today.

Do you really think people who don't share your religious opinions are liars? What damage has your "faith" done to you that it comes to this?

@fmf said
Everything both of us are saying on this matter is subjective.

So how do you know that it’s true?

@fmf said
Do you really think people who don't share your religious opinions are liars? What damage has your "faith" done to you that it comes to this?

That’s not what he said or even implied.

@dj2becker said
That’s not what he said or even implied.

Of course it is. He has said variants of the same thing more times than I can remember.

@dj2becker said
So how do you know that it’s true?

Read the thread. I have already explained my stance on the use of the word "know" in discussions such as this - two or three times. Read the thread. Or don't read the thread. Up to you.

@divegeester said
An example of a subjective truth is to believe that God exists.

Absurd logic.

It's not a question of belief. It's knowing.

Knowing God exists is having certain(complete, definite) knowledge of an immutable truth. i.e., God exists. It's entirely objective.

If it were subjective it would be less than immutable because God's existence would be contingent on one's feelings.

For example: if God exists, then the assertion "God is" is absolutely immutable, and entirely objective, not reliant on subjective feelings.

Where it is subjective is in one's emotional response to the immutable.

@fmf said
divegeester's faith and dj2becker's faith seem to be different.

Their faith is the same. What is different is the object.

@secondson said
Their faith is the same. What is different is the object.

dj2becker seems unable to communicate about his faith, at least in this instance - and in countless previous instances almost identical to this one - without slapping numerous intensifier adjectives onto the word "truth" in order to indicate how strong his beliefs are and how certain he is about supernatural things.

divegeester's "strong" and "certain" belief and faith doesn't seem to need all the buttressing hyperbole - he doesn't seem to need to shower his faith in assertions loaded up with adjectives.

@secondson said
For example: if God exists, then the assertion "God is" is absolutely immutable, and entirely objective, not reliant on subjective feelings.

"If God exists". Indeed. If He exists.

"If" is the operative word and affects the subjectivity/objectivity of every claim you make thereafter.

And your stance is reliant on subjective feelings. Your feelings tell you that whatever evidence that God exists you deem is good enough for you and your faith, you also deem is good enough for everybody else too.

It is quintessentially subjective of you.

@fmf said
dj2becker seems unable to communicate about his faith, at least in this instance - and in countless previous instances almost identical to this one - without slapping numerous intensifier adjectives onto the word "truth" in order to indicate how strong his beliefs are and how certain he is about supernatural things.

divegeester's "strong" and "certain" belief and faith doesn' ...[text shortened]... ing hyperbole - he doesn't seem to need to shower his faith in assertions loaded up with adjectives.

Truth is what it is, no intensifier adjectives are required to add meaning to it.

@fmf said
"If God exists". Indeed. If He exists.

"If" is the operative word and affects the subjectivity/objectivity of every claim you make thereafter.

And your stance is reliant on subjective feelings. Your feelings tell you that whatever evidence that God exists you deem is good enough for you and your faith, you also deem is good enough for everybody else too.

It is quintessentially subjective of you.

If is a conditional clause there is nothing subjective about it. If... then... because are phases used to explain a logical consequence.

E.g if you jump off a cliff you are probably going to die. Where’s the subjectivity in that?

@dj2becker said
That’s not what he said or even implied.

He alters other people words and their meanings to suit his arguments and suggest how he views them is the absolute truth!

Spends a lot of time telling people why, how, and what their motivation is!

@kellyjay said
He alters other people words and their meanings to suit his arguments and suggest how he views them are absolute truth!

Spends a lot of time telling people why, how, and what their motivation is!

Ironic indeed that he spends so much time arguing about ‘subjective truth’. If there is no absolute truth there’s no point in arguing about anything as everyone is right in their own eyes anyways.