The truth will make you free

Originally posted by knightmeister
When Jesus said, "Your faith has saved you", could he not have been speaking of this? It's not about becoming a "robot". It's about giving up the "life" that the ego desires. What the ego desires is really a form of "death". ----think of one--------------

When Jesus talks about saving faith he is talking about faith in him , however I agree with muc b to it's desires in a short moment of human weakness maybe once every 2-3 years?

Reading the words of Jesus, I'd have to believe that one can tell that oneself has yet to have been "saved" if one continues to sin.

"Depart from me, you who work iniquity."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever..."

"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way."

Yes, your ego is stubborn and difficult to root out. However, it seems that Jesus believes that you are capable of doing this. If you believe Jesus, then you should believe that you are capable also.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you even read or attempt to understand what's written? Or do you just pull out phrases that support your preconceived notions?

Let's go really slowly and step-by-step.

Here's the phrase in question:
"...all that is needed is for them to perform good works..."

First of all, in your initial selection of quotes from me, "work

If you understand this, please respond by repeating it back to me in your own words.[/b]

Let's go really slowly and step-by-step.

Here's the phrase in question:
"...[b]all that is needed is for them to perform good works..."

First of all, in your initial selection of quotes from me, "works" ("good" or otherwise) were never mentioned or even implied. [/b]

"I hope someday your heart will be opened by the Holy Spirit enough to be able to see the beauty in one who follows the will of God. One who comes to repentance and lives a life based in love, compassion, justice, etc. no matter the name." - ThinkOfOne

You are clearly saying here that it doesn't matter if a person believes in Christ or not, be they Muslim, Buddhist, or otherwise -- regardless, being good enough is good enough. Isn't that what you mean by, "...no matter the name"? Of course it is. This particular form of relativism is completely in line with your theologically backwards idea that people are born with the Holy Spirit. It's not difficult at all to understand what you are saying.

Stop trying to circumvent acknowledging the fact that your teaching and Christ's teaching are completely at odds. I don't care what I initially quoted. If the second section of quotes backs up what I said, it doesn't matter.

Sorry, but you failed the test; your claim to being more enlightened than the average Christian like myself (e.g., according to your accusation, "...you have eyes but cannot see" ), is debunked.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What's your point here? Are you going to pull phrases out of context and try to prove something?

That's right, you've been doing that all along.

My point is, you need to repent and place your faith in Jesus, and get baptized. You need to get born again!

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]Let's go really slowly and step-by-step.

Here's the phrase in question:
"...[b]all that is needed is for them to perform good works..."

First of all, in your initial selection of quotes from me, "works" ("good" or otherwise) were never mentioned or even implied. [/b]

"[i]I hope someday your heart will be opened by the Holy Spirit ording to your accusation, "...you have eyes but cannot see" ), is debunked.[/b]

[/i]Have you learned how to read minds? Your arrogance is truly shocking. You ask questions and then answer them for me. You tell me what I think. You put words in my mouth. The second section of quotes doesn't back it up either. I'd explain it to you if I thought you were capable of getting past yourself and reading what's actually there.

I've seen this before in a Christian that fell so in love with the idea that God loves her that she became completely lost. You exhibit many of the same traits.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Um. Isn't that expecting a reward?

You should neither want nor expect earthly rewards. There is nothing wrong with hoping for divine rewards. Paul spoke of a reward awaiting him on judgment day.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[/i]Have you learned how to read minds? Your arrogance is truly shocking. You ask questions and then answer them for me. You tell me what I think. You put words in my mouth. The second section of quotes doesn't back it up either. I'd explain it to you if I thought you were capable of getting past yourself and reading what's actually there.

I've seen t ...[text shortened]... dea that God loves her that she became completely lost. You exhibit many of the same traits.

Have you ever noticed how you persistently hide behind accusations? Good luck with that.

This conversation is over.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Have you ever noticed how you persistently hide behind accusations? Good luck with that.

This conversation is over.

Conversation? Is that what this was?

"You are clearly saying...Isn't that what you mean by...Of course it is..."

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Reading the words of Jesus, I'd have to believe that one can tell that oneself has yet to have been "saved" if one continues to sin.

[b]"Depart from me, you who work iniquity."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever..."

"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you ...[text shortened]... of doing this. If you believe Jesus, then you should believe that you are capable also.

Yes, your ego is stubborn and difficult to root out. However, it seems that Jesus believes that you are capable of doing this. If you believe Jesus, then you should believe that you are capable also.
----think of one-----

Agreed , but for you it seems it has to be an overnight thing to have any validity (?)

Let's try an analogy . A man needs a bone marrow transplant of he will die. He has no way of saving himself , he needs an outside injection of life giving marrow (analogous with the Spirit) . He receives the treatment he needs but it takes years for him to recover and be restored. At what point is he saved? Is it when he finally overcomes his illness or is it when he receives the marrow he needs?

The Bible says clearly that we are saved when we receive the transplant ( Holy Spirit via faith in christ) and this is our assurance of salvation. Jesus of course reminds us that if we have really received the bone marrow then we will not expect to see such a person still in hospital on a bed (bearing fruit) but that they will be recovering and will be escaping their illness (sin). There is no indication that the recovery is what saves the man though. It is clearly the bone marrow that saves him and the recovery is how we know he has received genuine marrow (by their fruits shall you know them).

Your problem still seems to be that you think because you have located many that say they have received the bone marrow that are still in their beds that this therefore means that bone marrow can't save. Your logic is wrong.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Yes, your ego is stubborn and difficult to root out. However, it seems that Jesus believes that you are capable of doing this. If you believe Jesus, then you should believe that you are capable also.
----think of one-----

Agreed , but for you it seems it has to be an overnight thing to have any validity (?)

Let's try an analogy . A man needs a b ...[text shortened]... till in their beds that this therefore means that bone marrow can't save. Your logic is wrong.

I don't know where you got the impression that I believe that it "has to be an overnight thing." In fact, I keep telling you that I believe that there is a process involved. That one has to truly believe in overcoming the desires of the ego and live a life of humility, love, compassion, justice, etc. Overcoming the desires of the ego does take time, effort and understanding.

However, I don't understand how you can ignore the words of Jesus. Yes, there is a common interpretation of the Bible that says that people are "saved" at some nebulous point short of actually following the teachings of Jesus. I don't understand why people choose to follow interpretations and extrapolations of what Jesus said instead of following the teachings of Jesus. Especially when said interpretations and extrapolations contradict the words of Jesus.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Have you ever noticed how you persistently hide behind accusations? Good luck with that.

This conversation is over.

Ironically the term devil means accuser of the brethren. 😉

I too have been called a liar, hypocrite, etc etc by the same source and have never once returned fire.

Originally posted by whodey
Ironically the term devil means accuser of the brethren. 😉

I too have been called a liar, hypocrite, etc etc by the same source and have never once returned fire.

I hope some day you learn to 'walk the walk'.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I don't know where you got the impression that I believe that it "has to be an overnight thing." In fact, I keep telling you that I believe that there is a process involved. That one has to truly believe in overcoming the desires of the ego and live a life of humility, love, compassion, justice, etc. Overcoming the desires of the ego does take time, effor ...[text shortened]... s. Especially when said interpretations and extrapolations contradict the words of Jesus.

Overcoming the desires of the ego does take time, effort and understanding. ---think of one-----

So if a man commits wholeheartedly to denying himself and places his faith in christ and starts to follow him but dies suddenly before he fully gets there what happens to his soul? Is he damned?

Originally posted by knightmeister
Overcoming the desires of the ego does take time, effort and understanding. ---think of one-----

So if a man commits wholeheartedly to denying himself and places his faith in christ and starts to follow him but dies suddenly before he fully gets there what happens to his soul? Is he damned?

I don't know.

What does Jesus say?

It seems that the number who actually "commit wholeheartedly" is considerably less that the number who think they do.

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I don't know.

What does Jesus say?

It seems that the number who actually "commit wholeheartedly" is considerably less that the number who think they do.

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the l ...[text shortened]... orld is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

You are dodging the question just as you dodged the bone marrow analogy. It is of course unthinkable that such a man would not be saved by virtue of his faith. Jesus himself stated it was possible to be saved by faith - what do you make of him saying this? Is it in contradiction to his other sayings? (For you maybe but you can't seem to understand why it's not for me)

Originally posted by knightmeister
You are dodging the question just as you dodged the bone marrow analogy. It is of course unthinkable that such a man would not be saved by virtue of his faith. Jesus himself stated it was possible to be saved by faith - what do you make of him saying this? Is it in contradiction to his other sayings? (For you maybe but you can't seem to understand why it's not for me)

So far as I know, "I don't know" is a valid response. More should use it instead of making up something that "sounds plausible."

Reading the words of Jesus, I'd have to believe that one can tell that oneself has yet to have been "saved" if one continues to sin. So what does Jesus mean by "believe" or "faith"? I have to think that it means to have His teachings guide ones life. So no, I don't think Jesus contradicts Himself.

Define the level of "faith" required to be "saved." How does one know he has reached that level? Is crying 'Lord, Lord' sufficent? Jesus says, "No".

Why is it "unthinkable"? Because you'd rather it didn't work that way? You start with a premise and fit what Jesus says around it instead of starting with what Jesus says.

I'm sorry but your bone marrow analogy probably works better for my views that yours. For one, getting bone marrow in no way guarantees a patient will be "cured." It only helps the process along. The patient is "cured" only if the marrow is successful in driving the disease out. Until the disease is driven out and sufficient time has passed to determine that it won't return, no doctor would proclaim the patient "cured".