23 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by lucifershammerno you first point not only attacks a position I didn't take it's wrong on on it's face, The RCC view of Christ is not the only Christian view never was and never will be .Only a doctrinare Catholic would even make such an assertion. Untill 325 a.d. it wasnt even the view of the RCC. The extreme right wing in the church won out and the tortures and murders began.
My first point defines what all Christians (except the Arians) say about Christ - that he was the Only-Begotten Son of God, was God Himself.
And btw, what do you think the Church experienced during the first four centuries of its existence?
wtf does that have to do with how the RCC treated people AFTER it got the Roman Army to back it.
Is that like : The Romans killed us so now its OK that we use the Romans to kill others?
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by frogstompI'm sure the Church realizes how monstrous, etc.... It just refuses to admit any liabililty.
according to me ,, the RCC has a long history of violently suppressing other christian groups even members of the RCC itself.
I wouldnt know who the RCC is "out to get" but I can tell you this: unless it realizes how monstrous it's past actions actually were it will never get it right.
We're talking Jesuits, here ~ they make Jedi seem like bimbos...
And they are just as clever and devious as Lucas's knights templar.
But you are right, frogspawn, in the intent of what you are saying. The RCC, however, is not the only church/faith with this problem. It arises from the organization overtaking the inspiration.
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by widgetYes but the origional point was about the RCC , and "everyone oppressing catholics".
I'm sure the Church realizes how monstrous, etc.... It just refuses to admit any liabililty.
We're talking Jesuits, here ~ they make Jedi seem like bimbos...
And they are just as clever and devious as Lucas's knights templar.
But you are right, frogspawn, in the intent of what you are saying. The RCC, however, is not the only church/faith with this problem. It arises from the organization overtaking the inspiration.
To that : It seems to me everyone , every country , evey leader seems positively giddy to kiss the pontif's ring (either the jewel one , or the brown one , take your pick .) Courts and law enforcement in this country and other's has looked the other way for decades when it came to sexual abuse by priests . I don't hear a lot about catholic churches being burned and their parishoners beaten .
So Ivan ho , where's the oppression ?
Oppression is not people refusing to kiss your backside because you're catholic .
23 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by widgethttp://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103101.htm
I'm sure the Church realizes how monstrous, etc.... It just refuses to admit any liabililty.
We're talking Jesuits, here ~ they make Jedi seem like bimbos...
And they are just as clever and devious as Lucas's knights templar.
But you are right, frogspawn, in the intent of what you are saying. The RCC, however, is not the only church/faith with this problem. It arises from the organization overtaking the inspiration.
that's Irenaeus on Gnostics
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2816.htm
that's ST. Athanasius
Here's Valentinus a Gnostic
http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/got.html
note* some of the coptic Greek words haven't been translated into english there ( I don't know why Grant left them that way since they make the passages unclear )
this predates canonization of by a couple of hundred years. and the Gospel of Thomas found on that site predates even this.
Thomas (the greek fragments that have been found ) was written at least as early as Matthew and Mark
btw I post this mostly to contradict LH's assertion that there was only one Christian view of Christianity.
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by widgetGood points my little drunken friend . Your post also begs the question of Ivanhoe - "What do you call persectution, Ivan ?" He's making this sound like the Final Solution whenever the smallest rock is thrown at his glass house . (One demented defender of his even brought up Kristalnacht .)
Maybe the most pertinent question, Moldy, is exactly who Ivan thinks is oppressing him for being an orthodox RC - just in case he admits that he's not actually authorized by the Big Guy to speak for the entire congregation?
23 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by David CYour little tiff with X is hardly a day old, and if I remember correctly his problem was with your accusations of him being a two faced phony. Of course the exchange was liberally spiced with vitriol. I'm still hoping that the two of you can make up... I apologise if my participation has aggravated the problem.
Yes, Doctor, it's quite the RHP kristallnacht, isn't it?
Originally posted by Halitose
[b]I find this very distasteful. I suggest we give Ivanhoe a break, cut him some slack. What'd'ya say?
Yet you found the vitrolic ad homenim directed at me specifically "Cheeky". I see.[/b]
On the other hand Ivanhoe has had to endure relentless multiple-thread ad homenims (I admit he didn't abstain from returning the compliments) which in my opinion have really started to curdle.
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by HalitoseWe shall have to distinguish between ad hominems and ad Hoeminems. (Sorry).
On the other hand Ivanhoe has had to endure relentless multiple-threaded ad homenims (I admit he didn't abstain from returning the compliments) which in my opinion have really started to curdle.
23 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by HalitoseIf enough people feel the same way, those posts will be modded away...that's about as democratic as RHP gets I think. (I hope someone buys you a subscription, then you can also prod the mods.)
Good homonym. I'd say calling someone demented and insane would fall under the first category.
I do think that we have to take things from whom they come and also not forget the somewhat theatrical nature of these forums. None of the language displayed here would be out of place in the House of Commons or in my country's parliament for that matter.
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by Halitosesorry Hal , but he didn't abstain from starting em too.
Your little tiff with X is hardly a day old, and if I remember correctly his problem was with your accusations of him being a two faced phony. Of course the exchange was liberally spiced with vitriol. I'm still hoping that the two of you can make up... I apologise if my participation has aggravated the problem.
On the other hand Ivanhoe has had to endu ...[text shortened]... dn't abstain from returning the compliments) which in my opinion have really started to curdle.
23 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by HalitoseSpeaking of the vile ad hominem...is it not simply a logical fallacy? It seems to have become a synonym for personal abuse. I'm not sure if this is correct. I mean, I think ad hominems are permissible, while deliberate character assassination is not. And when character assassination takes place, it is usually in the third person.
Good homonym. I'd say calling someone demented and insane would fall under the first category.
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by frogstompUntill 325 a.d. it wasnt even the view of the RCC.
no you first point not only attacks a position I didn't take it's wrong on on it's face, The RCC view of Christ is not the only Christian view never was and never will be .Only a doctrinare Catholic would even make such an assertion. Untill 325 a.d. it wasnt even the view of the RCC. The extreme ...[text shortened]... e : The Romans killed us so now its OK that we use the Romans to kill others?
Are you saying that the Bishops of the Church did not teach that Christ was God before the Council of Nicaea?
Is that like : The Romans killed us so now its OK that we use the Romans to kill others?
No - just checking to see if you've forgotten that period in Church History.
23 Sep 05
Originally posted by widgetWe're talking Jesuits, here ~ they make Jedi seem like bimbos...
I'm sure the Church realizes how monstrous, etc.... It just refuses to admit any liabililty.
We're talking Jesuits, here ~ they make Jedi seem like bimbos...
And they are just as clever and devious as Lucas's knights templar.
But you are right, frogspawn, in the intent of what you are saying. The RCC, however, is not the only church/faith with this problem. It arises from the organization overtaking the inspiration.
Did they kill JFK too?
23 Sep 05
6 edits
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThe "counterexample" as you put it states he has been harrassed by No1 and is still being harrassed by Frogstomp. Hardly suited to serve as a counterexample, rather as an instance to support my claim.
There's your counterexample, ivanhoe. Your harrassment is not in fact due to your Catholicism, as I suspected. You'll have to come up with another theory. Is it as LH speculates, that your temper is at the root of the problem?
Therefore I will stick to my original claim.
As far as my alleged short fuse is concerned, it cannot and should not be used as an excuse to dismiss the insults and the continuous harrassment that is clearly going on. My temper cannot wash away the responsibility every person has for his own behaviour.