04 Jul 12
Originally posted by Rajk999i refuted your claim that the Bible states that Christ is to be worshipped, clearly its a
Actually Galveston made a statement.
Then I asked for a supporting verse.
Then YOU butted in without providing a supporting verse which would have answered my question.
So the original statement which I was questioning still requires some proof ..
[b]Where did Jesus tell his followers that he is not to be worshipped but only the Father ..[/b]
religious bias in translation which has led to such an erroneous view. One can equally
ask, where did Jesus ever direct worship towards himself? As far as i can discern, he
always directed worship and praise towards the father.
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieG-man is wrong on his statement and it is strange how the New World Translation by the Watchtower uses "obeisance" when referring to the Son and "worship" when referring to the Father in translating the same Greek word. I would say that shows a bias on the part of the Watchtower Society. 😏
i refuted your claim that the Bible states that Christ is to be worshipped, clearly its a
religious bias in translation which has led to such an erroneous view. One can equally
ask, where did Jesus ever direct worship towards himself? As far as i can discern, he
always directed worship and praise towards the father.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by RJHindsFAIL, the New world translation is consistent, its the translators of Christendom who
G-man is wrong on his statement and it is strange how the New World Translation by the Watchtower uses "obeisance" when referring to the Son and "worship" when referring to the Father in translating the same Greek word. I would say that shows a bias on the part of the Watchtower Society. 😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
have been exposed as displaying a religious bias which they have used to cloud the
original meaning of the Greek text as demonstrated.
04 Jul 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs RJHinds right or wrong to say that the New World Translation takes the same Greek word and translates it as "obeisance" when referring to Jesus the Son but then translates the same Greek word as "worship" when referring to the Father? Has RJHinds got this wrong? What are the two Greek words that the New World Translation encountered to give us these two different English words? Or was there only one Greek word for both?
FAIL, the New world translation is consistent...
04 Jul 12
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFOf course I am right. One example is Matthew 14:33 and John 4:20.
Somebody else post. Please. So robbie can answer my question in a reply to you.
Then those in the boat did obeisance to him, saying: “You are really God’s Son.”
(Matthew 14:33 NWT)
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/mt/chapter_014.htm
The Greek word is "prosekynesan" and is translated "obeisance" because it is referring to the Son of God.
http://interlinearbible.org/matthew/14-33.htm
Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain; but YOU people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship.” Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will YOU people worship the Father.
(John 4:20-21 NWT)
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/joh/chapter_004.htm
Now the same Greek word "prosekynesan" is translated correctly as "worshiped" or "worshipped" because this refers to the Father.
http://interlinearbible.org/john/4-20.htm
04 Jul 12
6 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsMost Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts
Of course I am right. One example is Matthew 14:33 and John 4:20.
Then those in the boat did [b]obeisance to him, saying: “You are really God’s Son.”
(Matthew 14:33 NWT)
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/mt/chapter_014.htm
The Greek word is "prosekynesan" and is translated "obeisance" because it is referring to the Son of God.
http://interl ipped" because this refers to the Father.
http://interlinearbible.org/john/4-20.htm[/b]
other than worship. However, the context determines in what way the respective
words are to be understood. There is nothing in the text, either in the immediate
context or in the context of the Bible as a whole which lends itself to a translation of
worship in the case of Christ and you have provided none other than a religious
bias, this is not so with the creator, Jehovah where it is clear that worship is to be
directed towards the father exclusively, suck it up fat boy and read the words of the
Christ.
Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God
you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
Other Greek words associated with worship are drawn from eusebeo, threskeuo,
and sebomai, rendered, 'give godly devotion to, venerate, revere', respectively.
Worship that is acceptable to God.
(John 4:21-24) . . .Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when
neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will yopu people worship the Father.
You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation
originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the
true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed,
the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and
those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth. . .
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell, do the angels do obeisance to men? Did Satan ask Jesus to worship him or do obeisance to him? If it is only obeisance then why would Jesus refuse? So it seems that you can just translate that word however meets your fancy. Well, I think that shows clear bias and dishonesty. 😏
Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts
other than worship. However, the context determines in what way the respective
words are to be understood. There is nothing in the text, either in the immediate
context or in the context of the Bible as a whole which lends itself to a translation of
worship in th ...[text shortened]... hip him. God is a Spirit, and
those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth. . .
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIsn't this unilateral declaration of yours about the "context" simply a judgment that is entirely subject to your own "religious bias"?
There is nothing in the text, either in the immediate
context or in the context of the Bible as a whole which lends itself to a translation of
worship in the case of Christ and you have provided none other than a religious
bias...
Doesn't your insistence that the Greek word "prosekynesan" - which you admit "denotes worship" - can somehow mean [despite the richness of Greek vocabulary] something else "in the immediate context or in the context of the Bible as a whole" simply an assertion that suits JW ideology/theology?
You go on to assert that "...with the creator, Jehovah [...] it is clear that worship is to be directed towards the father exclusively...". But this only works if one accepts your earlier assertion that the Greek word "prosekynesan" means "worship" in the case of "Jehovah" but the same Greek word "prosekynesan" doesn't mean "worship" in the case of "Christ".
Isn't this what is called circular logic? And isn't this circular logic rather transparently in the service of your own often stated "religious bias"?
04 Jul 12
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsYou never mind that fat boy, you suck up the words of Jesus and ask yourself, why
Well, do the angels do obeisance to men? Did Satan ask Jesus to worship him or do obeisance to him? If it is only obeisance then why would Jesus refuse? So it seems that you can just translate that word however meets your fancy. Well, I think that shows clear bias and dishonesty. 😏
your translators have no contextual evidence for rendering the term worship in the
case of Christ and you have provided none, in the face of clear scriptural evidence to
the contrary, in other words, your busted RJH, time to get your tinfoil hat on and call
Orson! and you are wrong, it depends entirely upon the scriptural context as i have
explained, but you cannot handle the truth of scripture and resort to the usual drivel of
self certified opinion as if it has any relevance to anyone but you.
Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you
must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHe says nothing about Jehovah. That is your bias translation again because this is the Greek text and there is no Jehovah anywhere mentioned in the Greek New Testament. It says the Lord God, which includes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That's a fact, Jack!
You never mind that fat boy, you suck up the words of Jesus and ask yourself, why
your translators have no contextual evidence for rendering the term worship in the
case of Christ and you have provided none, in the face of clear scriptural evidence to
the contrary, in other words, your busted RJH, time to get your tinfoil hat on and call
Orso ...[text shortened]... vah your God you
must worship, [b]and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”[/b]
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAnd you are the arbiter of what is and is not "contextual evidence"? Surely the way you handle this "evidence" relies wholly on undisguised circular logic that simply exposes your own "religious bias"? [See my post above.]
...your translators have no contextual evidence for rendering the term worship in the case of Christ...
04 Jul 12
3 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsAt Matthew 4:10, Jesus said: “You shall worship [from proskyneo] the Lord your God
He says nothing about Jehovah. That is your bias translation again because this is the Greek text and there is no Jehovah anywhere mentioned in the Greek New Testament. It says the Lord God, which includes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That's a fact, Jack!
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
and him only shall you serve.” (At Deuteronomy 6:13, which Jesus is evidently here
quoting, appears the personal name of God, the Tetragrammaton, JHWH.) In harmony
with that, we must understand that it is proskyneo with a particular attitude of heart
and mind that should be directed only toward God.
That is the facts Jack! you are sooo busted AGAIN! RJH calling Orson, come in Orson,
na-nu na-nu.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo6.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/deu6.pdf
04 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe same argument your making can be used against you. Just silly.
Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts
other than worship. However, the context determines in what way the respective
words are to be understood. There is nothing in the text, either in the immediate
context or in the context of the Bible as a whole which lends itself to a translation of
worship in th ...[text shortened]... hip him. God is a Spirit, and
those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth. . .
Manny