Spirituality
19 Jun 18
22 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterThe doctrine isn't mine it comes straight out of scripture, it isn't something I made up so
Your version of Jesus is monster because he tortures billions with flames while deliberately keeping them alive for eternity. Defend it if you can...
All the rest of your “my god is holy” rhetoric is meaningless waffle and obfuscation in the contex of my statement about apocalyptic eternal torture.
that it belongs to me as mine! This isn't a truth according to KellyJay so it only applies to
just me! God has done much due to His love to save us, and you belittle the one who has
tried to save our souls, because you dislike the end result of evil. You should let that sink
in, it is His Kingdom He didn't have to save us, He doesn't have to allow us to walk out
our lives in rebellion to Him and allow us to go on living as sinners, but He does. To save
the lost, Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, but in our sin our rebellion we too
will end up there due to the evil of our sins before a Holy, Just, Righteous, Loving God
and each other.
I'm not defending anything, I take no pleasure in Hell, and from what I've read neither does
God; however, that is the end result of evil for beings who are going to live forever in one
state or another. Keeping alive just to suffer no, but because of the evil against God and
man those who fail to turn from evil towards God to be saved, that fate is already waiting
for all who are outside of God's grace. Again, not a defense but a shout out of the danger
that sinners before a Holy God find themselves, the flesh is against the Spirit, and the
Spirit against the flesh only through Jesus Christ is this fate avoided.
Not liking Hell does not change anything about the reality of it or not. The bar for evil
is one sin, even calling someone a fool is enough to put you in danger of Hell, a life time
of evil deeds, thoughts, and inactions will be weighed against unblemished love. We
are all in our natural state unworthy of God, and again because He has reached out to
save us do we have the chance to avoid the fate our lives call for, due to the evil we
have done. So you call the One trying to save your soul a monster, because your sins
have before Him put you in a place of danger you dislike, I suggest the monsters are the
one who would love their sins more than God, who has blessed us in this life with all we
have and given us a great many gifts along the way, who has seen our needs and give
all that He has to save us, for those who still rebel against Him, their fate can only be
changed due to His love, not their own self-righteous efforts. Defend yourself before the
Holy God, you will get the chance face to face, for your sake I hope it is while you are
under the blood of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins due to His love for you
and not your puffed up self-righteousness before a Holy God.
Originally posted by @divegeesterYes you did, calling Jesus a monster who took your sins upon Himself so you could be
I just explained why your version of Jesus is a monster and it was nothing to do with you list of straw man elements in your posts.
forgiven.
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22 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayI did. More by nuns, though. Fortunately, no violations o law.
Oh, and you have those types of people near you? I was wondering why you brought that
kind of priest up?
I am sure you are aware that harm an be done unde the aegis of religion, including under that of Christianity.
22 Jun 18
Originally posted by @js357Yes I agree with you! People are sinners even nuns. I envy those that found the Lord early in life. I did a lot of sinful things in my life, there is no doubt in me what I deserve. Even after I became a Christian one night at work I was filing up a gas truck at the airport I was working at thinking about how I had lived. I could hear the accusations against me He paid to high a price for me, I wasn’t worth it! Then that wee small voice reminded me, its because of His love not because I was worthy He shed His blood for me.
I did. More by nuns, though. Fortunately, no violations o law.
I am sure you are aware that harm an be done unde the aegis of religion, including under that of Christianity.
We need to focus on Him, He is our salvation!
23 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe Jesus you follow is a different Jesus to the one I do. The bible talks about this, read up.
Yes you did, calling Jesus a monster who took your sins upon Himself so you could be
forgiven.
23 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayNo it doesn’t it is man made.
The doctrine isn't mine it comes straight out of scripture, it isn't something I made up so that it belongs to me as mine! This isn't a truth according to KellyJay so it only applies to just me!
Of course YOU didn’t make it up...saying that I’m implying that you did, is just another straw man argument from you; do you know what a stawman argument is do you?
23 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterWell I have shared scripture with you, it can speak for itself. Your rebuttal consists of the damning argument that it hurts your essence whatever it was you said. Then instead of limiting your argument against the text about Hell. you instead go after me and call Jesus a monster. I have an argument you have hurt feelings or whatever it is you use between your ears. Straw man LOL!
No it doesn’t it is man made.
Of course YOU didn’t make it up...saying that I’m implying that you did, is just another straw man argument from you; do you know what a stawman argument is do you?
23 Jun 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @kellyjayI’ve asked you why you believe that eternal suffering in hell is biblically literal and yet other visionary characters such as the whore and the beast are not literal, and you cannot explain why.
Well I have shared scripture with you, it can speak for itself. Your rebuttal consists of the damning argument that it hurts your essence whatever it was you said. Then instead of limiting your argument against the text about Hell. you instead go after me and call Jesus a monster. I have an argument you have hurt feelings or whatever it is you use between your ears. Straw man LOL!
Can you?
23 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayWhen you made you list of the virtues and aspects of (a) Jesus and them you applied those aspect to my description of the (monster) Jesus who is burning billions of people in hell (as mentioned in Revelation), that was a straw man, you are making misrepresentation of my position and attacking that, rather than what I’m actually saying. I.e. You were disengeniously trying to make out that I was calling the (real merciful and loving Jesus as described throughout the rest of the gospels) a monster.
...Straw man LOL!
That is a straw man.
23 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterIt doesn’t matter if the whore and beast are real or not, because one being real has zero effect on the other is or not.
I’ve asked you why you believe that eternal suffering in hell is biblically literal and yet other visionary characters such as the whore and the beast are not literal, and you cannot explain why.
Can you?
23 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou’re doing it again. I’m not asking you if the whore is real, I’m asking you how you decide that one is literal and the other isn’t literal?
It doesn’t matter if the whore and beast are real or not, because one being real has zero effect on the other is or not.
How do you decide?
23 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterWhen it is portrayed as real by several people, in several places, in several time frames,
You’re doing it again. I’m not asking you if the whore is real, I’m asking you how you decide that one is literal and the other isn’t literal?
How do you decide?
I take it as real. If it is just a vision that too doesn't mean that its not real, it could be
something in the spiritual world that was revealed, but the fewer examples about any
topic would lead to me question if something was real or not, I normally would not worry
about it unless that question changes the meaning or lesson of the story.
What are your reasons for denying Hell fire, and the eternity of that punishment, besides
your feeling?
23 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayCan you show where eternal suffering in hell is depicted as being “real” by several people? Not in a parable, but where the text/person actually describes or depicted eternal suffering in hell as being real. If you give an example can you please tell me why/how it is depicted as being real, in your opinion.
When it is portrayed as real by several people, in several places, in several time frames, I take it as real. If it is just a vision that too doesn't mean that its not real, it could be something in the spiritual world that was revealed, but the fewer examples about any topic would lead to me question if something was real or not, I normally would not worry about it unless that question changes the meaning or lesson of the story.
23 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou are doing it again...creating a straw man..
What are your reasons for denying Hell fire, and the eternity of that punishment, besides your feeling?
I have been talking about eternal suffering in this forum for years and years; never once have I made a position against it based on my “feelings”.
Why do you keep doing this, it seems as if you don’t want to actually read what I’m writing but would rather create your own version of what you want me to be writing so you can attack it.
23 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterMake your arguments for why you don't believe, I've given you scripture and answered your
Can you show where eternal suffering in hell is depicted as being “real” by several people? Not in a parable, but where the text/person actually describes or depicted eternal suffering in hell as being real. If you give an example can you please tell me why/how it is depicted as being real, in your opinion.
questions, answer mine.