Suicide by Romans ??

Originally posted by whodey
If someone sacrifices their life in order to save others they are viewed as a hero.

I know of no cultures or religions which frown upon this form of suicide.

The captain goes down with his ship ( except for Francesco Schettino ).

Originally posted by moonbus
The captain goes down with his ship ( except for Francesco Schettino ).

Well that is great and all unless lives are not on the line. Why go down with the ship if it has nothing to do with saving lives?

Originally posted by KellyJay
,
He offered no defense to charges brought against Him which were false.

.
Kelly

Wasn't the main charge that he claimed to be the son of a god?
Are you saying that charge was false?

Originally posted by Suzianne
How so?

He was still a man. He was still anxious over going back to Jerusalem, knowing what was going to happen. He had last minute doubts, asking His Father to "take this cup" from him. But then He went back and faced His accusers, knowing what would happen. His faith is impressive, as is His sacrifice. Those who will be martyred in His name during the coming Tribulation will show similar faith.

Did he know or not know he was going to rise from the dead and later ascend into heaven?

Originally posted by FMF
Did he know or not know he was going to rise from the dead and later ascend into heaven?

This will be the time when Suzi mysteriously disappears from the thread. 🙂

Originally posted by sonship
So if you have 500 some witnesses to the resurrection still living who can testify to Paul's gospel or deny it, and a even earlier rabbinical like formula that there was a teaching that Jesus rose from the dead, then you have evidence quite close to the event.

Where can I find these 500 eyewitness accounts?

Originally posted by whodey
Well that is great and all unless lives are not on the line. Why go down with the ship if it has nothing to do with saving lives?

It's a matter of honor. The point is, it is one of the few morally sanctioned cases of suicide.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Suzianne... Please understand this.

First. If everything you said was true, I WILL STILL NEVER WORSHIP YOUR GOD UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE YOUR GOD IS EVIL.
So your snide comments about me 'changing my mind' are a total and insulting waste of time.

Second. Telling me that I have something to 'make up' with god is insulting and irritating.
...[text shortened]... your mind.

If that's your goal then well done.

If it's not... Maybe a rethink is in order.

methinks doth explains too much... 😀

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So you don't believe in prophecies?

I do believe in them, but I also believe that we act upon our own wills and
desires. That said, God I believe can still know and tell us in advance what
is going to happen, unlike us who could only do that if things were set in
stone that were bound to happen. Like putting in a fix for a boxing match,
we would have to fix it, or know the fighters so well we would know the
outcome.
Kelly

Originally posted by moonbus
Borges put it so much more eloquently than I could. It goes something like this:

If Jesus was omniscient, then he must have known the very first day he evangelized him that Judas would eventually betray him. Poor Judas; he was only playing the part his master and mentor had laid out for him. Jesus could have picked someone else to be his dubious disciple; ...[text shortened]... here. I find it an interesting line of reasoning; not that any devout Christian would accept it.

No, Judas did not die for Jesus, he died for a crime he did and then could
not live with the guilt of it. He lived in a world where unlike Peter didn't
have a place or someone to go for forgiveness. It was there, Jesus died for
sins of the world, the thief on the cross asked for forgiveness and received
it, while Judas who lived in this world stealing from the common bag had his
own desires and selfishness all the way through to his bitter end. He
thought only of himself, he stayed with in himself and looked no where else,
and it cost him his life when he realized how worthless he was on his own.
Kelly

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Wasn't the main charge that he claimed to be the son of a god?
Are you saying that charge was false?

The main charge was that, in claiming to be the Son of God, he was speaking Blasphemy. The charge was Blasphemy. Which is false.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
This will be the time when Suzi mysteriously disappears from the thread. 🙂

Everyone sleeps, my friend.

And today I was racked by a massive headache which left me nauseous, so I went to bed early. I wonder if it had anything to do with having the exterminator over today.

Originally posted by FMF
Did he know or not know he was going to rise from the dead and later ascend into heaven?

Of course He knew, He had prophesied it many times, why do you even ask this? This did not keep Him from being afraid of it. He had seen crucifixions before, as had everyone at that time. The Romans used it as a method of keeping the populace in check, since everyone knew it as a method of torture so dire it always led to death. He knew He would be resurrected, but He wasn't looking forward to the pain. He showed courage and primarily faith by going back to Jerusalem, especially on a donkey as scripture had prophesied.

Just imagine actually being beaten almost to death and then nailed to a cross until the weight of your own body caused you to finally be unable to breathe, so exhausted you cannot raise yourself up to take a breath. Just because He knew He was to be resurrected, this knowledge certainly did not cause Him to eagerly go to it, skipping all the way. This is what you are insinuating.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Of course He knew, He had prophesied it many times, why do you even ask this? This did not keep Him from being afraid of it. He had seen crucifixions before, as had everyone at that time. The Romans used it as a method of keeping the populace in check, since everyone knew it as a method of torture so dire it always led to death. He knew He would be resu ...[text shortened]... did not cause Him to eagerly go to it, skipping all the way. This is what you are insinuating.

Not only the pain, but He was about to become sin who knew no sin.
Kelly

Originally posted by moonbus
Judas was not a "hero"--that is the wrong term. That the most wretched possible sinner should forfeit his life and his eternal salvation in order that the Blameless One's purpose should be fulfilled, is nonetheless a noble deed, if you remove the 'bad spin' Judas got from the account in Scripture.

Removing the 'bad spin' removes the truth. He was not "noble", he did not "forfeit his life and his eternal salvation in order that the Blameless One's purpose should be fulfilled". He was after the silver.

Judas had been stealing from the modest funds the apostles collected in support of Jesus' ministry, he was appointed treasurer, mainly because he lobbied for the position and no one else wanted it. Jesus knew about it, and told him at the Last Supper, "That thou doest, do quickly." (John 13:27)

He had no idea that Jesus would be killed after he turned him over, he expected him to be questioned and released. Judas was used by Caiaphas. After he saw Jesus being led to Pilate and knowing he had been condemned, he finally had overwhelming remorse and hung himself, after returning the silver. (Matthew 27:3-5)