Spirituality
02 Aug 14
06 Aug 14
Originally posted by CalJustI can say this, God gives His Spirit to those that belong to Him and if you
How can you say that YOUR OWN beliefs are true or false? You cannot!
All you can say is: "The beliefs that I currently hold I BELIEVE to be true!"
Will you admit that your beliefs have changed over time? I know mine have - frequently!
I would go so far as to say that if they have NOT changed, you have NOT grown!
do not have God's Spirit you don't belong to God. I'm also not touching on
some side issue like the age of the earth with FMF either, but God Himself.
Either Jesus Christ was a reality in his life or not, if his 'beliefs' did not have
God's Spirit actually involved, then he didn't leave God, because he was
never a part of God.
My beliefs have and will change over time, but if Jesus Christ is not the
sure foundation in your life, who cares what you believe about anything
else!
Kelly
06 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterForget asking me again! I've answered you, and you either ignore my
3rd time of asking:
If you believe in the doctrine that a Christian can lose their salvation, then why can you not accept that this may be what has happened in FMF's case?
reply or just like attempting to pull my chain.
Kelly
06 Aug 14
Originally posted by CalJustSo you think growing "beyond Jesus Christ" is a good thing?
How can you say that YOUR OWN beliefs are true or false? You cannot!
All you can say is: "The beliefs that I currently hold I BELIEVE to be true!"
Will you admit that your beliefs have changed over time? I know mine have - frequently!
I would go so far as to say that if they have NOT changed, you have NOT grown!
Kelly
06 Aug 14
Originally posted by KellyJay4th time of asking:
Listen, I've done pages with him on the point that bothers me about his
story. It didn't have anything to do with that doctrine, it had everything
to do with how he describes it.
Had he said, I knew the Lord but walked away, okay, I agree change of heart.
Had he said, I walked as a Christian for years, but realized it was false than
that would be o ...[text shortened]... f actually coming to the Lord, if his
blinded heart ever gets a taste of the real thing.
Kelly
If you believe in the doctrine that a Christian can lose their salvation, then why can you not accept that this may be what has happened in FMF's case?
06 Aug 14
I think what Kelly is trying to say, is that for him, Jesus is real and not a belief, so it would be impossible for him to change his belief about Jesus (as it is not a belief).
So he is claiming that FMFs former belief, which was just a belief, not a reality, could not be equivalent to what he experiences.
I don't think Kelly is considering the possibility that he may be mistaken about the reality of Jesus, and that it may in fact, be a belief.
06 Aug 14
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayYou haven't answered Kelly.
Forget asking me again! I've answered you, and you either ignore my
reply or just like attempting to pull my chain.
Kelly
This is just what Galveston gets like when he feels painted into a corner. It's not endearing behaviour you know.
06 Aug 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadI think you are spot on from that perspective; he is also in denial about the practical out-working of his belief in the doctrine that a Christian can lose his salvation. It seems that Kelly has hammered the "FMF was never saved" nail so hard and so dogmatically that he now cannot (publicly at least) reconcile that obstinate stance with his belief in lost salvation.
I think what Kelly is trying to say, is that for him, Jesus is real and not a belief, so it would be impossible for him to change his belief about Jesus (as it is not a belief).
So he is claiming that FMFs former belief, which was just a belief, not a reality, could not be equivalent to what he experiences.
I don't think Kelly is considering the possibility that he may be mistaken about the reality of Jesus, and that it may in fact, be a belief.
06 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterBy the way that was the 5th time ..😀
You haven't answered Kelly.
This is just what Galveston get like when he feels painted into a corner. It's not endearing behaviour you know.
Its like he has to admit he is gay or something.
Although these days thats not a big deal
06 Aug 14
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterAs near as I can tell, I think what Kelly is attempting to argue is that he thinks there is a difference between rejecting God and disbelieving in God. I think he believes that you can stop being a Christian if you reject God (but still believe the biblical God is real), but the only way you could disbelieve the biblical God is if you never really believed in God in the first place (a variation on the No True Scotsman fallacy).
I think you are spot on from that perspective; he is also in denial about the practical out-working of his belief in the doctrine that a Christian can lose his salvation. It seems that Kelly has hammered the "FMF was never saved" nail so hard and so dogmatically that he now cannot (publicly at least) reconcile that obstinate stance with his belief in lost salvation.
06 Aug 14
2 edits
Originally posted by PatNovakThat there is this much speculation about what Kelly does or doesn't mean is testament to his inherent vagueness in his posting. Even his dogmatic stubbornness does not translate cohesively when put into writing. However I've followed his posts on the issue of FMF's dubious flirtation with Christianity, and am convinced that Kelly has barked himself into a corner.
As near as I can tell, I think what Kelly is attempting to argue is that he thinks there is a difference between rejecting God and disbelieving in God. I think he believes that you can stop being a Christian if you reject God (but still believe the biblical God is real), but the only way you could disbelieve the biblical God is if you never really believed in God in the first place (a variation on the No True Scotsman fallacy).