Salvation

Originally posted by FMF
I think human beings can be good without the aid of superstition. I can, for example. But if you need superstition in order to be a moral person, then that's OK by me. I welcome your morally sound behaviour, however you happen to make yourself engage in it.

This is the kind of insulting crap Christians have put up with forever in this forum.

You clearly cannot wrap your head around how it is NOT a "superstition" nor a "momentary thought" simply because YOU cannot bring yourself to believe it.

And this "well, I'm glad you can at least recognize morality, even if you have to dream up some weird crap to make you adhere to it", just smacks of the smarmy attitude that is really tiresome.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No. Asking if I "even read" it is the dodge. You claim to be "insightful" and "accurate" in your posts, yet you distort everything, at every opportunity. Perhaps you've been in the trenches in the "forum wars" participating in "forum combat" for so long that you can't even have a normal discussion anymore.

But you don't seem to have actually read what whodey said. You are kind of criticizing me for my side of the conversation I had with him but it seems rather obvious that you either haven't read what he said or you are trying to resist any attempt to focus on what he said. Do you agree with whodey?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Peter says it very nicely - that you start off with faith. But you cannot end there. You MUST ADD to that faith:
- virtue
- knowledge
- temperance
- godliness
- brotherly kindness
- charity.

You start off with FAITH the least important of all virtues and graduate to CHARITY the greatest of all virtues. Faith is JUST A START.

And yet you build your entire argument in this forum with the firm conviction that all the Christians in this forum do NOT do these things.

You presume to be the judge and jury of Christians.

You presume way, WAY too much.

And oh, btw, how is that "following Christ"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
You clearly cannot wrap your head around how it is NOT a "superstition" nor a "momentary thought" simply because YOU cannot bring yourself to believe it.

The only point of view I can express when we are exchanging opinions is my point of view. It's all you do too. The words "momentary thought" are a reference to whodey's assertion about "salvation in a blink of an eye" is possible in Christianity and that it is not a matter of being good or bad. DO you agree with him?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Does this happens to all Christians

- we do the works of God,
- we become born again,
we receive the Spirit of God

If Yes can you justify it with some references.

The implication is that all Christians do the works of God. I can provide references which show that not all that profess to be Christian do the works of God.

Obviously not all who profess their faith in Christ will get into Gods Kingdom.

Do you need references?

And upon what do YOU base your conviction that no Christian here does these things?

Yes, your own vanity.

How is this "following Christ" again?

Originally posted by Suzianne
And this "well, I'm glad you can at least recognize morality, even if you have to dream up some weird crap to make you adhere to it", just smacks of the smarmy attitude that is really tiresome.

It's sincere and it's genuine. If you need your religious beliefs to enable you to act in a morally sound way, then I welcome your morally sound behaviour, even if it based on something I do not base mine on.

Originally posted by FMF
But you don't seem to have actually read what whodey said. You are kind of criticizing me for my side of the conversation I had with him but it seems rather obvious that you either haven't read what he said or you are trying to resist any attempt to focus on what he said. Do you agree with whodey?

He asked you some rather simple questions and you dodged them all, and then you claim it is he and I who are doing the dodging.

If you have issue with something he wrote, ask him. I understood why he wrote what he did, and I think you do too, but you'd rather dodge and deflect than participate in an actual conversation.

Originally posted by FMF
The only point of view I can express when we are exchanging opinions is my point of view. It's all you do too. The words "momentary thought" are a reference to [b]whodey's assertion about "salvation in a blink of an eye" is possible in Christianity and that it is not a matter of being good or bad. DO you agree with him?[/b]

I do not disagree with anything he's said in this thread (I know, miraculous, but I guess the odds were with him). It has been YOU who have dissected and deconstructed everything he's said in order to make it seem ridiculous when his meaning and your "translated" meaning have absolutely nothing in common.

But this is all part and parcel for you and some others to distract and obscure the meaning of this thread and why it was created.

Originally posted by FMF
It's sincere and it's genuine. If you need your religious beliefs to enable you to act in a morally sound way, then I welcome your morally sound behaviour, even if it based on something I do not base mine on.

This is like saying to a homosexual, "I appreciate that you can feel love, even if you have to do something disgusting like sleep with another guy to get there."

Extremely intolerant.

Now before you act all "holier than thou" with me on this, I defy you to explain the difference between this and what you are saying.

Originally posted by Suzianne
If you have issue with something he wrote, ask him. I understood why he wrote what he did, and I think you do too, but you'd rather dodge and deflect than participate in an actual conversation.

Do you agree with whodey's assertion about "salvation in a blink of an eye" regardless of whether a life has been good or bad?

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is like saying to a homosexual, "I appreciate that you can feel love, even if you have to do something disgusting like sleep with another guy to get there."

Extremely intolerant.

Now before you act all "holier than thou" with me on this, I defy you to explain the difference between this and what you are saying.

Saying that I accept your use of your religious beliefs to enable you to act in a morally sound way and that I welcome it, is toleration not being "extremely intolerant".

Originally posted by Suzianne
Now before you act all "holier than thou" with me on this, I defy you to explain the difference between this and what you are saying.

I am saying I accept that you use your faith as your basis for your endeavours to live a moral life.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I do not disagree with anything he's said in this thread (I know, miraculous, but I guess the odds were with him). It has been YOU who have dissected and deconstructed everything he's said in order to make it seem ridiculous when his meaning and your "translated" meaning have absolutely nothing in common.

So what do you think whodey meant about "salvation in the blink of an eye" being possible even for a person who has not been good?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Yes you are special .. OK? 🙂 Care to move on ?

After thinking about this thread, I do want to tell you I'm sorry I've done and said
something about you. When we exchange thoughts and views it is fair game to banter
about each other, I entered into a discussion about you with someone else and talked
about you. I'm sorry I did that, I was wrong to do it, if we were debating okay, but that
was me going after you without you being involved. Again, sorry!

Originally posted by KellyJay
As I said, when Jesus says one thing he disagrees with it, and it is as plain as day whose
word is he telling everyone to believe, his or Jesus?

I recall him disagreeing with you. I don't recall him disagreeing with what Jesus said.

But maybe I missed some things. Like I said: "I don't recall anything that he said that would lead me to believe that he believes in ignoring the word of Jesus - no less him telling others to do so (which your accusation states)

If you can point me to specific posts, I'll take a look. But as it stands, he's due an apology from you."