Spirituality
17 Jan 12
21 Jan 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't need to. The statistics (by your own admission) contradict your position. It is you making the extraordinary claim, it is you that has the burden of proof.
You have interviewed millions of South Africans, but you didn't use statistics? You are being more and more illogical as the thread progresses.
[b]Now you prove to me this is not the case?
I don't need to. The statistics (by your own admission) contradict your position. It is you making the extraordinary claim, it is you that has the burden of pr ...[text shortened]... re better off than in the past. Are you saying that they were better in 1980 under apartheid?[/b]
I don't need to prove it either and I don't see how I contradict myself in any way. But allow me to explain that though people are better off now (in the moment) they will not be better off in the end. How can giving credit to people who don't even have a job "really" be better off? Is it only the moment that counts and bugger the rest?
Why must I prove it to millions of South Africans? They haven't made any such claims.
They aren't here to do so right?
Did I say nothing was wrong with the country? When? It seems you are loosing track of the thread.
What I said is that the people in the country are better off than in the past. Are you saying that they were better in 1980 under apartheid?
Definitely not. I am against every aspect of the apartheid. But the only thing that has changed is that it is a different type of apartheid now. If you don't agree with this, how can you explain so many people leaving the country and the farm murders? This has decreased but it doesn't change the fact that apartheid just swung the other way.
If just by taking apartheid into consideration, white people (mostly) "in the moment" were better off, and now, where has it brought us (the innocent), the results were devastating. But this is not what I am arguing about.
To get back to the argument, our economy right now is not under recession and we got out not so bad out of the last one. The fact is, there are hundreds/thousands of illegal people in our country, and somehow these people get credit. The individual that gets the credit will spend it all and some credit providers allow you to go over you limit, how can people be better off by companies closing their doors cause no one pays them back, not even to speak of people losing their jobs. IN THE END, who will be better off?
21 Jan 12
Originally posted by NickstenThat is where you contradict yourself. In some posts, you claim everyone is getting worse off, and everyone can see it, then in the next post you admit this is not the case, and the 'worse off' part is some hypothetical future that only you can see.
But allow me to explain that though people are better off now (in the moment) they will not be better off in the end.
Definitely not. I am against every aspect of the apartheid. But the only thing that has changed is that it is a different type of apartheid now. If you don't agree with this, how can you explain so many people leaving the country and the farm murders? This has decreased but it doesn't change the fact that apartheid just swung the other way.
Ha ha ha. I see you are white, and feel like you have the short end of the stick.
People leave the country for many reasons. I left my own country for economic reasons.
Farm murders? How is that evidence of reverse apartheid? Surely that is largely a result of massive imbalance in wealth created by apartheid in the first place.
To get back to the argument, our economy right now is not under recession and we got out not so bad out of the last one. The fact is, there are hundreds/thousands of illegal people in our country, and somehow these people get credit. The individual that gets the credit will spend it all and some credit providers allow you to go over you limit, how can people be better off by companies closing their doors cause no one pays them back, not even to speak of people losing their jobs. IN THE END, who will be better off?
I see you are also somewhat xenophobic. You really aught to get to know some of them. I can assure you that by and large foreigners are good for this country.
22 Jan 12
Originally posted by FMFWith a move frequency of 0.75/day and 4 games in progress, we should have the pleasure of his company for a while yet.
LemonJello's departure will be the forum's - and the web site's - loss. I wouldn't really expect posters of your calibre - or the likes of RJHinds, josephw and Dasa, for that matter - to understand why.
22 Jan 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou are a foreigner, so you want me to get to know you and some of the other foreigners? Yeah right, why would I want to especially after a "Ha ha ha. I see you are white..."? I have no time and respect for racism. The only thing I see is that maybe where you came from and where you are now, South Africa is looking better, note, "looking better".
That is where you contradict yourself. In some posts, you claim everyone is getting worse off, and everyone can see it, then in the next post you admit this is not the case, and the 'worse off' part is some hypothetical future that only you can see.
[b]Definitely not. I am against every aspect of the apartheid. But the only thing that has changed is ...[text shortened]... know some of them. I can assure you that by and large foreigners are good for this country.
I see you are also somewhat xenophobic. You really aught to get to know some of them. I can assure you that by and large foreigners are good for this country.
Barely! The thing I am afraid of is the fact that these foreigners come in to our land and dare claim some of it. Not only this, but we (as South Africans black and white) have to make way for these foreigners. So yes, I agree with you, any large foreigners for any country is good, but not if they come in here empty handed.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by NickstenIt has been brought to my attention that I have more in common with the biblical fundamentalists than I would like to believe simply because I believe in a somewhat literal meaning for the Book of Revelation. I believe that a figure known as the AntiChrist will come to power with apparent salvation for mankind, solving many of the problems that plague us, only to turn on humanity halfway through the coming Tribulation, claiming he is God or Christ (the abomination of desolation in the rebuilt Temple written about in Revelation) but bringing with him a holocaust for true Christians and others who do not follow him. I believe that Jesus Christ will return at the end of the Tribulation with His heavenly host and do battle with the AntiChrist and his followers at the Battle of Armageddon. I believe in the judgement to follow and the banishing of Satan for a thousand years and the establishment of a New Jerusalem which is God's Kingdom on earth. Basically I believe in the scenarios depicted in Hal Lindsay's The Late, Great Planet Earth.
Well what do you believe?
Of course this is only my belief of the Book of Revelation, and doesn't include the rest of my belief system which may or may not agree with yours, but I thought this was what you wanted to know when you asked about what do I believe.
I am politically liberal and therefore shudder to think I have much of anything in common with biblical fundamentalists, but I guess I have to admit that my beliefs on the Book of Revelation are pretty straightforward and literal, and so may indeed have common ground with fundamentalists. I never really gave it that much thought.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by SuzianneAs you gain more understanding, you will begin to see that Jesus was
It has been brought to my attention that I have more in common with the biblical fundamentalists than I would like to believe simply because I believe in a somewhat literal meaning for the Book of Revelation. I believe that a figure known as the AntiChrist will come to power with apparent salvation for mankind, solving many of the problems that plague us, ...[text shortened]... ay indeed have common ground with fundamentalists. I never really gave it that much thought.
politically and religiously conservative and it was actually the Pharisees
who were the liberals that had changed the religion of the Jewish people.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by SuzianneThanks Suzianne.
It has been brought to my attention that I have more in common with the biblical fundamentalists than I would like to believe simply because I believe in a somewhat literal meaning for the Book of Revelation. I believe that a figure known as the AntiChrist will come to power with apparent salvation for mankind, solving many of the problems that plague us, ...[text shortened]... ay indeed have common ground with fundamentalists. I never really gave it that much thought.
The reason for my question was that I misunderstood a previous post which made me belief you're not Christian at all - but it was my mistake for thinking so.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by NickstenYes, I think you should. Xenophobia is as bad as racism.
You are a foreigner, so you want me to get to know you and some of the other foreigners?
I have no time and respect for racism.
So you say, yet you seem to think that people in South Africa are worse off now than under apartheid.
Barely! The thing I am afraid of is the fact that these foreigners come in to our land and dare claim some of it.
Why not? Why don't they have as much right as you do? After all, you and your ancestors were not the first to get here, so on what basis do you claim prior rights?
Not only this, but we (as South Africans black and white) have to make way for these foreigners.
No, you don't. That is why I said you should get to know us a bit better. In general, foreigners are more enterprising than locals and are thus creating jobs and benefiting locals, not harming you.
So yes, I agree with you, any large foreigners for any country is good, but not if they come in here empty handed.
I came empty handed, and I am not large. But overall, I am benefiting the economy and the country and not pushing you out or harming you. Your fear of me is irrational. You are Xenophobic.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadI say I am against all aspects of racism, you say xenophobia is as bad as racism and also claim I am xenophobic which comes back to that I am a racist. LOL wow really? One what basis?
Yes, I think you should. Xenophobia is as bad as racism.
[b]I have no time and respect for racism.
So you say, yet you seem to think that people in South Africa are worse off now than under apartheid.
Barely! The thing I am afraid of is the fact that these foreigners come in to our land and dare claim some of it.
Why not? Why don't they ...[text shortened]... try and not pushing you out or harming you. Your fear of me is irrational. You are Xenophobic.[/b]
Why not? Why don't they have as much right as you do? After all, you and your ancestors were not the first to get here, so on what basis do you claim prior rights?
Well this is easy - I was born here. Proudly! If your attitude is like this, then go and try your luck claiming land in America (the Free Country) using this very same argument and see where it gets you? In fact, try some other countries too and report back. You weren't born here and neither can you prove your ancestors where part of any thing of South Africa and yet you have a lot to say to me.
No, you don't. That is why I said you should get to know us a bit better. In general, foreigners are more enterprising than locals and are thus creating jobs and benefiting locals, not harming you.
Prove this? Prove this for our economy?
I came empty handed, and I am not large. But overall, I am benefiting the economy and the country and not pushing you out or harming you. Your fear of me is irrational.
Did you really? I beg to differ. Why? Cause I believe you being a programmer have come with skill. Yes, what you are doing within your industry is benefiting that industry and in return the economy. But there are people entering this country that has absolutely nothing...they only have their clothes and the 100 words they can speak of which only a handful who can understand them. This is from poverty I know, and it doesn't make me a racist. I am not saying THEY are the problem but surely are part of the problem. The creditors give such people credit and employers replacing locals with foreigners for cheap labor is the big problem. This does not do the economy good.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by NickstenIts your flawed logic, not mine.
I say I am against all aspects of racism, you say xenophobia is as bad as racism and also claim I am xenophobic which comes back to that I am a racist. LOL wow really? One what basis?
Well this is easy - I was born here. Proudly!
Why does that five you special rights?
If your attitude is like this, then go and try your luck claiming land in America (the Free Country) using this very same argument and see where it gets you?
How is that relevant? The fact that Americans are Xenophobic does not support your stance in the slightest.
In fact, try some other countries too and report back. You weren't born here and neither can you prove your ancestors where part of any thing of South Africa and yet you have a lot to say to me.
I don't care if I was born here, or whether my ancestors were part of South Africa. I can trace my ancestry to many different countries, and you probably can too, but do you claim ownership of all land in all those countries? On what basis? That your ancestors were there?
Did you really? I beg to differ. Why? Cause I believe you being a programmer have come with skill. Yes, what you are doing within your industry is benefiting that industry and in return the economy. But there are people entering this country that has absolutely nothing...they only have their clothes and the 100 words they can speak of which only a handful who can understand them.
There are people with absolutely no talents, who only speak 100 words, who have managed to cross the boarder illegally and steal your land and money? Amazing!
This is from poverty I know, and it doesn't make me a racist. I am not saying THEY are the problem but surely are part of the problem.
You are claiming that they are worse off than they were previously and that this is a sign of the end of the world. Or have you lost track of the thread?
The creditors give such people credit and employers replacing locals with foreigners for cheap labor is the big problem. This does not do the economy good.
You clearly don't know very much about economics. Cheap labour is beneficial to economic success. There is a reason why China is doing so well and the US is in trouble. What's funny is that you lost your job to someone with no talents and only 100 words, yet you obviously know how to type and post on internet forums. At best you have proved my claim that foreigners are more enterprising.
23 Jan 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadOh twhitehead - have a nice day.
Its your flawed logic, not mine.
[b]Well this is easy - I was born here. Proudly!
Why does that five you special rights?
If your attitude is like this, then go and try your luck claiming land in America (the Free Country) using this very same argument and see where it gets you?
How is that relevant? The fact that Americans are Xenophobi ...[text shortened]... on internet forums. At best you have proved my claim that foreigners are more enterprising.[/b]