Rev 14:9-11 literal or not?

@josephw said
"You’ve been duped by the people who told you that it was literally true."

What's the point?
What the scriptures say is the point.

What a twist you've put on what it says. You don't believe it, so then it doesn't mean what it says, then you accuse me of believing what others say it means when what it means is what it says.

You're the duped one.

Here's an exampl ...[text shortened]... our nice guy Jesus isn't the Jesus, that when he returns, will judge and destroy the ungodly wicked.

I have no problem with any of this particularly if we lose the paedophiles so that kids are safer; or ditto the wamongering politicians who murder so many from the collateral damage of their wars.

It’s a bit like people a parent disciplining their kids; you do this and that will happen.

The commandments that we are asked to follow are not burdensome or cruel. Don’t harm you fellow and try and help each other while having respect for godly authority isn’t a problem.

@rajk999 said
I think churches misinterpret this word 'loving' and 'love', by equating it with what humans call love. In the Greek there are 3 kinds of love, Eros, Philos and Agape, physical, friendly and sacrificial respectively. God and Christ loves with the Agape love. Its all about sacrifice. This confusion has caused churches to refer to 'intimate' and 'personal' relationship with God ...[text shortened]... hrist, your analysis is faulty if you ignore the consequences of living contrary to the laws of God.

In fact their are four - you missed out Philia - which would be the one that applies to brothers and friends.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Well I guess, if it was actually literal, you are missing an opportunity as a Christian to save your non believing friends from eternal suffering.

The eternal roasters can’t have it both ways. Either when you are dead you have no knowledge Ecclesiastes 9:5 or you are really living and currently being basted.

So can we ask Raj and Kelly if this scripture is correct or not, and why ?

@medullah said
In fact their are four - you missed out Philia - which would be the one that applies to brothers and friends.

I said ..In the Greek there are 3 kinds of love, Eros, Philos and Agape, physical, friendly and sacrificial respectively... Philos and Philia is the same.

I did leave out one and it is "storge" which is love among family members.

@medullah said
The eternal roasters can’t have it both ways. Either when you are dead you have no knowledge Ecclesiastes 9:5 or you are really living and currently being basted.

So can we ask Raj and Kelly if this scripture is correct or not, and why ?

I guess you will get a chance to ask Jesus. Also you will have to explain why you think Solomon knows more than He does.

@suzianne said
And exactly why must we take as a given "the manipulative nature of Revelations"?

You don't.

@suzianne said
If your given is in error, what does that say about the rest of your argument? Exactly.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong.

@suzianne said
If you don't take the text of Revelation to be true, so what? It's an issue for you, not me. Calling it "manipulative" doesn't change that, it only highlights the degree to which you think it's false, and believe me, we got that the first time around. You didn't have to resort to hyperbole to get us to believe you when you say you don't believe the text.

We just disagee, that's all, Suzianne. If you are satisfied with the provenance, authenticity, and purpose of Revelation, so be it.

@suzianne said
None of this makes it okay for those of us who will be judged to presume to sit in judgement of our fellows, nor to encourage others to presume to sit in judgement of others.And certainly, using scripture in this manner of presuming judgement seems a sin of its own.

Oh the irony. There's probably no Christian here who is as caustically judgemental as you. Is there any anyone here who condemns fellow Christians as much and as often as you do?

@fmf said
Oh the irony. There's probably no Christian here who is as caustically judgemental as you. Is there any anyone here who condemns fellow Christians as much and as often as you do?

Have you never read anything Rajk has written here? You act as if you never have.

You also must have missed your pal denigrating anyone and everyone pushing the 'eternal torment' idea. He has spent entire threads, indeed, an entire forum, ragging on them.

@rajk999 said
That includes professed Christians, who claim to be born again and saved. God is no respecter of persons. All people will be judged by their works.

A person's works are merely an outward manifestation of their heart, which is what they are judged by. Judging by works is basically missing the point.

-Removed-

You seem to be focused on yourself (again).

Did you take what I said personally? Interesting.

I was replying to josephw.

@fmf said
Oh the irony. There's probably no Christian here who is as caustically judgemental as you. Is there any anyone here who condemns fellow Christians as much and as often as you do?

"Caustically judgemental"? Now that's irony.

No, actually it is hyperbole and hypocrisy.

@suzianne said
Have you never read anything Rajk has written here? You act as if you never have.

You also must have missed your pal denigrating anyone and everyone pushing the 'eternal torment' idea. He has spent entire threads, indeed, an entire forum, ragging on them.

I am simply calling you out for your blatant hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness. Your whataboutism is no defence: it'sjust a deection. Rajk999 may be uncompromising and his tenacity - and the way he propogates his theology - may frustrate you, buy he is not hypocritical in the same way as you are.

@suzianne said
"Caustically judgemental"? Now that's irony.

No, actually it is hyperbole and hypocrisy.

I may be caustic some times but I am not a hypocrite. Anyway, even if you think I am, how does it excuse your behaviour?