21 Feb 16
Originally posted by StartreaderOh. You are equivocating. If I may, I'll ask again. Do you subscribe to the theology of eternal torture in flames for non-believers who do not "turn to Christ at the end"?
There is always the possibility for everyone to turn to Christ at the end.
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21 Feb 16
Originally posted by FMFI doubt it. Suzianne, perhaps. I don't know her beliefs, nor josephw's. Divegeester appears to believe a creed i don't recognise. It seems improbable that he and I would believe the same.
So, in this matter of Christian doctrine - or its interpretation - you are in agreement with divegeester, josephw and Suzianne (and presumably others).
Are you hoping to trip me up on some inconsistency?
Originally posted by StartreaderNot at all. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this notion that divegeester 'attacks Christian doctrine. I know he doesn't 'believe' in the Trinity theology. But the same goes for loads of Christians. He doesn't subscribe to the belief in eternal torture. Nor does Suzianne. Nor josephw. Nor do you [I think ~ is that right?]
I doubt it. Suzianne, perhaps. I don't know her beliefs, nor josephw's. Divegeester appears to believe a creed i don't recognise. It seems improbable that he and I would believe the same.
Are you hoping to trip me up on some inconsistency?
The most vocal believers in torture in flames for eternity for non-believers are sonship, Grampy Bobby and RJHinds. For two Christians like you and divegeester, there is no need for you to deal in what you find probable and improbable because he is open and honest about what he believes. Christians disagree about interpretations.
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21 Feb 16
Originally posted by FMFI do believe that the possibility of eternal torture exists, but the only person who knows for sure who will suffer it is God.
Not at all. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this notion that divegeester 'attacks Christian doctrine. I know he doesn't 'believe' in the Trinity theology. But the same goes for loads of Christians. He doesn't subscribe to the belief in eternal torture. Nor does Suzianne. Nor josephw. Nor do you [I think ~ is that right?]
The most vocal believers in tortur ...[text shortened]... because he is open and honest about what he believes. Christians disagree about interpretations.
I know that God is a God of mercy, and that He is loving and full of compassion. I believe that there will be an opportunity for everyone to turn to Him at the last. However, where someone refuses, knowingly...and that's key...to do so, then I don't know.
I also believe in Purgatory, a temporary state where some will be able to expurgate their sins.
I am sure that Hell is reserved only for those who knowingly and with intent, and full knowledge of the consequences, commit a serious sin and don't repent. It is God who will decide.
What I personally believe matters only to me and God. And what I believe is according to my understanding, always knowing and trusting that it will be God who decides and judges.
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21 Feb 16
Further, I believe in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and you'll find my beliefs in its teachings and the Nicene Creed.
Beyond that, these are things one constantly considers deeply and discusses regularly. And we learn afresh every day.
This is all I can say on this matter.
Originally posted by StartreaderAnd yet you join self-identifying Christians like robbie, Suzianne, lemon lime, josephw and others when they call divegeester a "so-called Christian" or words to that effect.
What I personally believe matters only to me and God. And what I believe is according to my understanding, always knowing and trusting that it will be God who decides and judges.
And yet, like you, what he personally believes arguably matters - in his mind - only to him and his God figure and what he believes is according to his understanding, too.
It sometimes seems ~ when it comes to doctrine and interpretation and your willingness to attack a fellow Christian ~ that you don't give him the same leeway as you give yourself.
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21 Feb 16
Originally posted by FMFPlease would you cite where you consider me to have attacked Divegeester?
And yet you join self-identifying Christians like robbie, Suzianne, lemon lime, josephw and others when they call divegeester a "so-called Christian" or words to that effect.
And yet, like you, what he personally believes arguably matters - in his mind - only to him and his God figure and what he believes is according to his understanding, too.
It someti ...[text shortened]... ess to attack a fellow Christian ~ that you don't give him the same leeway as you give yourself.
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21 Feb 16
Originally posted by FMFIt has not been my intention to attack him. It has at times been my intention to defend others from what have appeared to be his attacks on them. And there have probably been occasions when I've reacted in irritation to his apparent inability to move on from a fixed idea of slight. It has taxed my patience to be accused of cowardice for not saying something I have never even thought and don't believe.
If you don't think you have attacked him, you can just say so.
21 Feb 16
Originally posted by stellspalfieJesus said that He is the Way, the Truth, the Light and no one comes to the Father, but
has anybody ever been saved without knowing jesus?
by Him so no, according to Jesus no one will be.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
21 Feb 16
Originally posted by StartreaderSo what are you saying ~ you have attacked him ~ or you haven't attacked him?
It has not been my intention to attack him. It has at times been my intention to defend others from what have appeared to be his attacks on them. And there have probably been occasions when I've reacted in irritation to his apparent inability to move on from a fixed idea of slight. It has taxed my patience to be accused of cowardice for not saying something I have never even thought and don't believe.
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21 Feb 16
Originally posted by KellyJayAnd those who have never heard of him or have not yet understood about him, or who are subjected to intense pressure, by society and circumstance, not even to learn about him?
Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth, the Light and no one comes to the Father, but
by Him so no, according to Jesus no one will be.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
21 Feb 16
Originally posted by Startreader...add to that, those who simply cannot and don't believe because they are unconvinced by the claims Christians make about the meaning of Jesus's life and his divinity. In other words, sincere and honest non-believers.
And those who have never heard of him or have not yet understood about him, or who are subjected to intense pressure, by society and circumstance, not even to learn about him?
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21 Feb 16
Originally posted by FMFI have answered you already. If you haven't understood, please read my reply again.
So what are you saying ~ you have attacked him ~ or you haven't attacked him?
Remember, I asked you to cite where you consider me to have attacked him. If you can really be bothered because yet again you're play-acting your court of law technique and I see that you don't really care about either question or answer; it's merely a game for your amusement.
And sorry, I'm "taking my ball" and leaving your game.