Originally posted by @whodeyWhat about my question in the post you clicked Reply & Quote for?
My position is, the world is better since Christ came into it. It is my guess that slavery would still be OK and out in the open had he not come into the world
However, man is not getting any better in that we still sin, which is reflected by the fact that slavery is more prevalent than ever.
Originally posted by @philokaliaAsk him a question back
What's funny about dive :
He demands answers to questions but even when you give him a controversial answer he won't debate you anyway, he'll just sputter and act indignant.
He's only here to ask questions and bump threads.
Jump in bro
The neutral zone is becoming unsafe. Hold your ground in truth
Originally posted by @philokaliaThe morality of it is [or was] determined by the economic needs of the kind of people who might own slaves - this seems to be what you are arguing. Clarify if it's not.
Yes, slavery was moral.
Is it moral now? No.
What if such economic needs arise again or if people feel they have those economic needs now? Can the morality of it change again in your view?
It could never come from a feeling; it could only come from a reality.
Here's the thing... It is totally justifiable to kill someone from a rival tribe when you see him in the early morning hours near your tribal lands, potentially scouting for weaknesses or preparing for a raid...
But there is absolutely no parallel to modern life.
I don't wake up and see a man walking through my neighborhood and think geez, maybe he is scouting my tribe or planning a raid; maybe he is even a front man for a raid.
I have no tribe; there are no raid parties; there are no more early morning assaults from the woods. There are no hunting parties disappearing in the woods.
Just as such... we have liquid finances; there hasn't been a scarcity of food resulting in starvation to death in high numbers in the US since... I do not even know. There's just no material reality that makes it so.
It doesn't need to be explained anymore than that.
Originally posted by @philokaliaThis is your moral justification for slavery?
It could never come from a feeling; it could only come from a reality.
Here's the thing... It is totally justifiable to kill someone from a rival tribe when you see him in the early morning hours near your tribal lands, potentially scouting for weaknesses or preparing for a raid...
But there is absolutely no parallel to modern life.
I don't w ...[text shortened]... just no material reality that makes it so.
It doesn't need to be explained anymore than that.
Originally posted by @fmfConnect the dots.
This is your moral justification for slavery?
>the undesirable choice of killing an unknown man in your tribal lands was done to prevent greater catastrophe to the tribe. Lesser of two evils.
>the undesirable choice of condoning slavery was allowed to prevent the greater evil of thousands and thousands of people dyhing of famine or becoming brigands in the countryside because they couldn't sell themselves into slavery, or of putting to death every single at risk brigand or thief because there were no real means of holding him as a long-term captive or using punishments that resemble modernity... etc.
You gotta stop asking people to spell everything out for you.
It's tedious.
Try to show us you are better than pestering people with these silly questions.
Originally posted by @philokaliaI think you are simply being evasive. Be unequivocal instead: Is the second post on this page - typed by you - your moral justification for slavery ~ by way of the scenario you described? If you answer directly, we can discuss the implications of your moral mindmap and see what other actions you might seek to justify.
You gotta stop asking people to spell everything out for you.
Originally posted by @fmfPerhaps if you are more of a "feeler" than a thinker, as you and Dive and many postmodern people seem to be, it is best to think of this as an explanation of its existence and some sad drama in the context of humanity and just move on with it.
I think you are simply being evasive. Be unequivocal instead: Is the second post on this page - typed by you - your moral justification for slavery ~ by way of the scenario you described? If you answer directly, we can discuss the implications of your moral mindmap and see what other actions you might seek to justify.
I am not sure if you guys are cut out for serious meta-ethical conversations about maximizing the good in a situation with limited capabilities.
You should just watch sports or AJ+ viral videos and cry at the end of sad movies the next time you get the urge to try something deeper. It's just not for you.
Originally posted by @philokaliaMore dodging.
Perhaps if you are more of a "feeler" than a thinker, as you and Dive and many postmodern people seem to be, it is best to think of this as an explanation of its existence and some sad drama in the context of humanity and just move on with it.
I am not sure if you guys are cut out for serious meta-ethical conversations about maximizing the goo ...[text shortened]... end of sad movies the next time you get the urge to try something deeper. It's just not for you.
LOL, dodging what?
I do not provide some justification like "Yeah, it is wholesome and good to practice slavery," for the same reason that I do not provide a justification that "Yeah, it's good when you kill a man who might be scouting your tribal lands..."
It's like saying,
>It is good to kill people in self-defense.
>It is good to eat a deceased companion to preserve your life.
>it is good to practice polygamy to increase the birth rate of your tribe that is dwindling.
These things are not morally good, they are merely permissable in extreme circumstances.
The only "moral justification" that occurs is based on an event that is alien to ourselves as people of this time and circumstances.
How clear do I have to make it?
It's not like the ideal scenario involves any of these things.
Originally posted by @philokaliaTherefore the morality of the bible is variable over time?
Yes, slavery was moral.
Is it moral now? No.
Originally posted by @philokaliaYou are dodging this question: Is the second post on this page - typed by you - your moral justification for slavery ~ by way of the scenario you described?
LOL, dodging what?
Originally posted by @philokaliaWould it be morally sound ~ according to your moral mindmap ~ for a slave to kill his or her "owner" in order to end the enslavement? In any era.
It's like saying,
>It is good to kill people in self-defense.
Originally posted by @philokaliaIs it also "totally justifiable" for people to be scouting settled land for weaknesses and preparing for a raid and killing or enslaving members of the rival tribe if economic circumstances make the raiding tribe decide it necessary?
It is totally justifiable to kill someone from a rival tribe when you see him in the early morning hours near your tribal lands, potentially scouting for weaknesses or preparing for a raid...
Originally posted by @divegeesterNo, it's merely a choice of the lesser of two evils.
Therefore the morality of the bible is variable over time?