Originally posted by jammerMurder is nothing more than unlawful killing. Thus, murdering members of a tyrannical government is possibly self-defense (and morally justified). Murder can't be absolutely wrong because laws are sometimes wrong.
Just my opinion ..
Murder, by definition, is always wrong .. absolutely.
To kill is not the same thing as to murder and by definition MAY BE right in certain situations.
Originally posted by dj2beckerYour sentence is poorly written, unclear and possibly grammatically incorrect. Don't blame me for your failures.
I strongly recommend that you use a dictionary if you struggle understanding a sentence.
So which part of the sentence are you have difficulty with?
"So what if the maximization of your own pleasure causes pain to another individual?" - so what if it does? What are you asking?
Originally posted by jammerDoes murder exist or could everything just be killing? For instance, say I took a little infant, and I lifted it up by it's little cute feet and then swung it down onto a rock and smashed its brains out. Would that be murder or just good ole fashion killing?
Just my opinion ..
Murder, by definition, is always wrong .. absolutely.
To kill is not the same thing as to murder and by definition MAY BE right in certain situations.
LOL!
It was getting late, and I was sleepy. The discussion wasn't getting any further since the opening of this thread. So I went to sleep. Now, more than 12 hours later, I've come back just to find that dj2 hasn't progressed any further.
OK, dj2, let me help you out a bit. Let's not make a song and dance out of all this.
Folks, basically, dj2 is trying to establish the fact that there MUST be absolute truth; absolute morality; absolute right and wrong.
And then if there is absolute truth, he will proceed by asking what or who should determine whether something is absolutely right/wrong. If we are to answer we based our moral/truth on other than God, he will ask are we absolutely sure? He will insist that what we believe to be the truth may turn out to be false. Anyway, this long useless argument will somehow lead to his main goal, i.e. that God is the source of the truth. Voila!!! Why? Because God knows everything of course! So how am I doing, dj2? Close enough?
Here's something I should clear up, since dj hasn't given me anything else to respond to.
Now, if there is a God, then he could have his own judgements, but they are still just opinions; he (or anyone) just feels that something is good or evil.
Assuming God exists, and that it is omniscient, then God knows completely what the consequences of any action would be. Thus, God would know what is most good and most evil and where any other action is on that scale. However, unlike what Christians generally say, in such a scenario the goodness and evilness are not based on what God says, they are based on pain and pleasure. God knows what is most good and most evil but things are not good or evil simply because God says so.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemI guess we'll argue over the definition of words.
Murder is nothing more than unlawful killing. Thus, murdering members of a tyrannical government is possibly self-defense (and morally justified). Murder can't be absolutely wrong because laws are sometimes wrong.
You defined murder yourself as "unlawful" killing, which is the same definition i'd use.
That was the only distinction I was making.
Whether or not a specific act is considered murder or killing is purely subjective .. and that's how things are morally justified.
Murder is absolutely wrong (again) by definition simplely because it is unlawful.
When it become morally right in someones opinion to kill, it's just killing not mureder ... until they're arrested and brought to justice, then society decides.
Society decides what's legally right/wrong.
Individuals decide what is morally right/wrong.
Originally posted by telerionIMO that would be murder and worthy of the DP administered on the spot.
Does murder exist or could everything just be killing? For instance, say I took a little infant, and I lifted it up by it's little cute feet and then swung it down onto a rock and smashed its brains out. Would that be murder or just good ole fashion killing?
Originally posted by jammerWhat if society gets it wrong? What if they make bad laws? Is it right to say murder is absolutely wrong when laws are obviously not absolutely right?
I guess we'll argue over the definition of words.
You defined murder yourself as "unlawful" killing, which is the same definition i'd use.
That was the only distinction I was making.
Whether or not a specific act is considered murder or killing is purely subjective .. and that's how things are morally justified.
Murder is absolutely wrong (again) by def ...[text shortened]... ety decides what's legally right/wrong.
Individuals decide what is morally right/wrong.
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Originally posted by AgergAbsolute truth is an objective reality that exists totally independent of what anyone thinks or feels about it. It is a reality that is true for all people, for all times, for all places. Truth is real and solid whether or not we choose to believe it, just as Mount Everest is real and solid whether or not we choose to climb it. Contrary to your postmodern views, I believe that we do not create truth, we discover it. Belief does not determine reality, reality exists apart from belief. Our belif in truth merely brings us into alignment with it and activates its power in our lives.
I don't know why you are flinging arithmetic into the mix dj2becker...within mathematics all principles are defined & created by humans...so long as the axioms, and theorems based upon them with which a certain mathematical statement rest upon are agreed to be justified, then expressions like 1 + 1 = 2 are indeed absolutely right because we humans define...[te ...[text shortened]... ns.)
also, as has been explained to you by someone else..."right" has different meanings.
Originally posted by dj2beckerAnd so you wish to define an "absolute right" and "absolute wrong". Problem is, right and wrong exist independently of matter. They are subjective, rather than physical things.
Absolute truth is an objective reality that exists totally independent of what anyone thinks or feels about it. It is a reality that is true for all people, for all times, for all places. Truth is real and solid whether or not we choose to believe it, just as Mount Everest is real and solid whether or not we choose to climb it. Contrary to your postmodern ...[text shortened]... Our belif in truth merely brings us into alignment with it and activates its power in our lives.